Why Frank Turek is Not a True Christian!

 

He spreads falsehoods and lies about other people’s beliefs and faith traditions! A true, faithful, believing Christian wouldn’t do that. The above is a clip from a short video he posted on Twitter/X on 10 July 25, accompanied with the following short text message:

Is believing Jesus is God really that important? Let’s explore why this is the very heart of Christianity & how Mormons totally miss the mark. Link.

And here is the video transcript:

Well Mormons are even further out theologically than Jehovah’s Witnesses. I mean, officially Mormons are polytheists. They don’t think there is one God. They think the God of this universe was once a man who graduated and became a God. And there are a number of other gods out there. And if you are a faithful Mormon man, you can one day be a god of your own planet. I am not making this stuff up by the way, okay? And so Mormonism has more theological oddities than even Jehovah’s Witnesses do. But if you are going to deny that Jesus is who he said he was—I mean, Jesus’s big question to everyone was, “Who do you say that I am?” right? To deny that Jesus was who he said he was in many different ways—I mean Jesus says things like this: “Before Abraham was born I am.” “Anyone who believes in me will never taste death,” or something like that, right? He says, “Pray in my name.” “I and the father are one.” “I am the alpha and the omega”—actually that is from Revelation. I mean, there are so many statements of Jesus that show he is not just a good moral teacher; that he is something beyond what just a human being would be.

So his main argument is that Latter-day Saints don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. That is a falsehood and a lie. The doctrine of divinity of Jesus Christ is more clearly, repeatedly, and unambiguously taught in modern LDS scripture (Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants) than it is in the Bible. The following is a selection:

Book of Mormon Title Page:

… And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations.

2 Nephi 11:

7 For if there be no Christ, there be no God; and if there be no God, we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ; and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.

2 Nephi 26:

12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

Mosiah 3:

5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, …

Mosiah 7:

27 And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things; and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth—

Mosiah 15:

1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, …

Mosiah 16:

15 Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen.

Mosiah 27:

31 Yea, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess before him [Christ]. Yea, even at the last day, when all men shall stand to be judged of him, then shall they confess that he is God; …

Alma 11:

39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he [Christ] is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;

3 Nephi 11:

14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

Doctrine and Covenants 1:

24 Behold I am God, and have spoken it; these commandments are of me [Christ], and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.

Doctrine and Covenants 19:

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit …

Doctrine and Covenants 35:

1 Listen to the voice of the Lord your God, even Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, whose course is one eternal round, the same today as yesterday, and forever.

2 I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world, …

• • •

8 For I am God, and mine arm is not shortened; and I will show miracles, signs, and wonders, unto all those who believe on my name.

Doctrine and Covenants 38:

1 Thus saith the Lord your God, even Jesus Christ, the Great I Am, Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. The same which looked upon the wide expanse of eternity, and all the seraphic hosts of heaven before the world was made;

2 The same which knoweth all things, for all things are present before mine eyes.

3 I am the same which spake, and the world was made, and all things came by me.

Doctrine and Covenants 39:

1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ—

2 The light and the life of the world; a light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not;

Doctrine and Covenants 63:

6 Wherefore verily I say, let the wicked take heed, and let the rebellious fear and tremble, and let the unbelieving hold their lips; for the day of wrath shall come upon them as a whirlwind, and all flesh shall know that I am God.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:

1 Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no Savior.

2 Great is his wisdom, marvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings none can find out.

3 His purposes fail not, neither are there any who can stay his hand.

4 From eternity to eternity he is the same, and his years never fail.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:

16 Therefore let your hearts be comforted concerning Zion, for all flesh is in mine hands. Be still and know that I am God.

Modern LDS scripture affirms, confirms, and attests to the divinity of Jesus Christ far more clearly, comprehensively, repeatedly, and unambiguously than the Bible does. Nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ taught as clearly, explicitly, unambiguously, affirmatively, and repeatedly as it is in modern LDS scriptures. Telling falsehoods and lies about other people’s beliefs and faith traditions is not a good idea. It backfires in the end—and the end result will be the damnation of the soul, if not speedily repented of.

Another falsehood he has perpetrated against LDS beliefs is that they are “polytheists”. Polytheism means that you worship more than one God. Latter-day Saints worship one God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (which is “one God,” see 2 Nephi 31:21; Alma 11:44; Mormon 7:7; Doctrine and Covenants 20:28). LDS also believe in the deification of man, which is a separate issue.

Firstly, the doctrine of the deification of man or theosis (and by extension, plurality of gods) was a well established doctrine in the early Christian Church, and was extensively taught, written, and talked about by the Early Church Fathers. All the Early Church Fathers, including the Apostolic Fathers, the Ante-Nicene Fathers, the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, from the first century onwards (such as Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Theophilus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Hippolytus, Novatian, Origen, Cyprian, Methodius, Lactantius, Athanasius, Hilary of Poitiers, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory Nazianzen, Basil, Ephraim the Syrian, Ambrose, Augustine, Jerome, Hilary of Arles, John Chrysostom, Mark the Ascetic, Aphrahat—all the way down to Athanasius, Origen, Augustine and beyond), they all believed in, and extensively wrote on the deification of man, or theosis—and by extension, plurality of gods. They all taught that men can become gods. Examples of their writings are extensive, and can be seen here. And traces of it also still exist in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The reason why he doesn’t believe that is because his religion is apostate. It apostatized a long time ago, and lost many of its early beliefs and doctrines.

Another falsehood about LDS beliefs that he has perpetrated is the idea that we believe we will become “god of our own planet,” which of course is a perversion of the truth and a lie. While LDS theology indeed teaches the deification of man (as the early Christians did), nowhere is it stated that we became “god of our own planet”. Here is a quote:

Doctrine and Covenants 132:

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

Which is indeed also confirmed in the Bible:

John 17:

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

1 John 3:

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

2 Peter 1:

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

But nowhere is it stated in LDS scripture that they become “gods of their own planet”. LDS scripture teaches that those who are so exalted in the celestial kingdom of God, and thus “deified,” or become “gods,” receive all that the Father has:

Doctrine and Covenants 84:

37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

Who wants to be a “god of their own planet” when they can have all that God the Father has—all the stars, planets, galaxies in the universe that God has created? It is estimated that there are 2 trillion galaxies in the universe, each of them containing trillions of stars with their planets. Who wants to be “god of their own planet,” when they can have all the trillions x trillions x sextillion of stars, galaxies, and planets that God has created? There is no LDS scripture that says that we become “gods of our own planet”. Joseph Smith never taught such a doctrine, neither is it found in any LDS scripture—which is the ultimate source of LDS theology and doctrine. So he is “making stuff up”. The bottom line is that he is a false teacher, and not to be trusted to teach divine truth.

They are in it to make money; and since attacking, denigrating, and spreading falsehoods and lies about “Mormonism” is popular in Evangelical circles, they like to engage in that activity in order to maintain their popular base. They are not interested in the truth. They are the emissaries of Satan, who was a liar from the beginning (John 8:44)—and will receive their reward from him in due time.

More Blatant Errors From Thoughtful Faith!

 

I noticed the above video from the Thoughtful Faith channel in which Jacob Hansen is again questioning the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture, specifically the Old Testament scripture. I had previously discussed most of the issues he raises in my previous blog posts, therefore there is no need to repeat them again here. I will briefly comment only on something which he had not previously mentioned. The segment I will be commenting on occurs between 4:00 and 8:00 minutes into the video. At around 4:00 minutes into the video he begins as follows:

Many people find themselves stuck right now between the soul-destroying atheism, and the incoherent mess of creedal Christianity. Jordan [Peterson] does an excellent job of pointing out the problems with the secular worldview; but Alex [O’Connor] does a great job of pointing out the flaws in the creedal tradition. For example, let’s start with the absurd creedal notion of biblical infallibility, and see the problems this creates for Jordan.

The first thing to note here is that the doctrine of biblical infallibility and inerrancy is not a “creedal” issue. It has nothing to do with the “creeds”. The doctrine became an issue following the Protestant Reformation—many centuries after the “creeds” were originally written. His obsession with “creeds” confuses and beclouds the issue. While the doctrine of the divine inspiration of scripture has been acknowledged by Christians throughout history (and indeed affirmed numerous times by Jesus himself in the New Testament, see examples here), the doctrine of the inerrancy of scripture became an issue following the Protestant Reformation, and reached its climax in the “International Council on Biblical Inerrancy” held in Chicago in October 1978, which issued the “Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy”. According to the Wikipedia article on the subject:

The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy is a written statement of belief formulated by more than 200 evangelical leaders at a conference, convened by the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy, and held in Chicago in October 1978. The statement was designed to defend the position of biblical inerrancy against a trend toward liberal conceptions of Scripture. Link

And as far as I am concerned, the doctrine of the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture is not an issue from an LDS theological point of view (as previously discussed, see here).

Then he displays a clip from a video showing first Jordan Peterson, followed by (atheist) Alex O'Connor, in which Alex points to certain passages in the Old Testament which appear to condone slavery (Exodus 21; Deuteronomy 15:12-15; 1 Chronicles 2:34-35), thus concluding that Old Testament scripture is not moral or ethical—and therefore could not have been divinely inspired—and Jacob Hansen agrees! That is another argument he brings against the doctrine of the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture—especially Old Testament scripture. His argument basically is that since slavery is inherently wrong, immoral, unethical, and inhumane; and there are passages in the Old Testament that appear to condone slavery; therefore those passages are not divinely inspired, and could not have originated from a just, loving, caring, and merciful God. That is his main argument.

The point to be noted here is that in ancient cultures—both Hebrew and non-Hebrew cultures, in both Old and New Testament times, in both Christian and non-Christian cultures—if you needed a domestic servant such as a cook, a gardener, a housekeeper, a nurse, a house maid etc., you would go and buy one. There was no such thing as “employing” a domestic servant in those days, and paying them a monthly “salary” or “wage”—and them being free to leave your “employment” anytime they wanted to. Such a thing did not exist in any ancient cultures—Jewish or non-Jewish, Old or New Testament Times, Christian or non-Christian cultures. There were also “hired servants” in those days to do temporary jobs, such as harvesting a field, or working on a construction site etc., who were then paid an hourly wage, according to the labor that they performed (e.g. Matthew 20:1-8; Luke 15:17,19; John 10:12-13). But there was no such thing as “employing” a domestic servant (permanently) on those terms. Those were only bought and sold. This was true not only of the Old Testament times, but also of New Testament times (e.g. Ephesians 6:5-9; Colossians 3:22-4:1; 1 Timothy 6:1-2; Titus 2:9-10; 1 Peter 2:18-20). These all referred to permanently owned domestic servants—or “slaves” if you wanted to use modern terminology for it—although that would not be accurate.

The problem with the word “slave” in modern English is that it is culturally and psychologically associated with ill-treatment, injustice, and abuse—which was not the case in ancient times. It doesn’t mean that abuses didn’t exist in those days. But in general, it was considered a great honor, privilege, and blessing to be a “servant” (“slave” in modern English) to a righteous, generous, and benevolent master. If you acquired a domestic servant in those conditions, then they became your “property,” you “owned” them; and if they were female, that also gave you the legal and legitimate right to have sex with them, because they were your “property,” you “owned” them. That was true of all cultures in ancient times—in Old as well as New Testament times. Very beautiful young women were bought and sold in the “slave market” at very high prices. You had to be very rich to be able to afford to buy one! If you saw one that you absolutely fell in love with, and you had to sell half your property to be able to afford to buy her, that is what you would do! In the Old testament passages that these folks are referring to, God is instituting laws to make those practices more humane. He is not “condoning slavery”. Under Old Testament Jewish law for example, if such a “servant” (“slave” if you prefer) was abused by his master, and escaped and sought protection, they had the right of protection (Deuteronomy 23:15-16). They could not be delivered back to their cruel masters. No other culture or society had such rules, as far as I know. Therefore far from “endorsing slavery,” the Old Testament rules ensured that the practice was made more humane. That is evidence that they were inspired by God. Therefore far from undermining the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture, they support it. After showing the video clip, he then comments on it as follows:

Here is the reality; the Bible contains contradictions; and atheists like Alex love to point those out, because creedal Christians assume biblical infallibility.

Wrong on all accounts! No contradictions! What he is implying is that those passages in the Old Testament undermine or contradict the underlying moral and ethical basis of the Bible—which of course they don’t, for the reasons explained above. And the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture is not a “creedal” issue. He then continues:

But what Alex does not account for is that the verses like these are an anomaly, that contradict the theme of the biblical corpus; which central theme is that we are all made in the image of God; and so loved and so valued that no matter what our circumstances, Christ was willing to die for us.

Wrong again, no contradictions! The Old Testament rules on “servanthood” (which is the more correct way of describing it) were given by God to humanize the process, and eliminate abuse as much as possible. They are evidence of divine inspiration of scripture—specifically Old Testament scripture in this case—and not the opposite. He then continues:

And Alex [O’Connor] does not realize that the very reason he opposes slavery at all is because he was raised in a Western culture, deeply influenced by the themes of the Bible rather than specific passages that contradict those themes.

Wrong again! The “specific passages” of the Bible that he is referring to do not “contradict those themes,” as explained above. And he finally concludes:

Now all of this is much more easily resolved from a Latter-day Saint paradigm because we hold to biblical reliability rather than the God-breathed word for word biblical infallibility.

Wrong on all accounts. Firstly, LDS theology has no issue whatsoever with biblical infallibility and inerrancy—as previously discussed here. (And “God breathed” is a biblical expression—though not so expressed in the KJV. See this quote from the NIV: 2 Timothy 3:16-17). Secondly, there is no such distinction between “reliability” and “infallibility” in scriptural terms; they both amount to the same thing. “Reliable” for what, to teach all kinds of errors and false doctrines? Scripture cannot be “reliable” if it is not free from doctrinal and theological errors—which is another way of saying, infallible and inerrant. “Reliability” and “infallibility” amount to the same thing, in the scriptural context.