Saturday, June 28, 2025

More Blatant Errors From Thoughtful Faith!

 


I noticed the above video from the Thoughtful Faith channel in which Jacob Hansen is again questioning the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture, specifically the Old Testament scripture. I had previously discussed most of the issues he raises in my previous blog posts, therefore there is no need to repeat them again here. I will briefly comment only on something which he had not previously mentioned. The segment I will be commenting on occurs between 4:00 and 8:00 minutes into the video. At around 4:00 minutes into the video he begins as follows:


Many people find themselves stuck right now between the soul-destroying atheism, and the incoherent mess of creedal Christianity. Jordan [Peterson] does an excellent job of pointing out the problems with the secular worldview; but Alex [O’Connor] does a great job of pointing out the flaws in the creedal tradition. For example, let’s start with the absurd creedal notion of biblical infallibility, and see the problems this creates for Jordan.


The first thing to note here is that the doctrine of biblical infallibility and inerrancy is not a “creedal” issue. It has nothing to do with the “creeds”. The doctrine became an issue following the Protestant Reformation—many centuries after the “creeds” were originally written. His obsession with “creeds” confuses and beclouds the issue. While the doctrine of the divine inspiration of scripture has been acknowledged by Christians throughout history (and indeed affirmed numerous times by Jesus himself in the New Testament, see examples here), the doctrine of the inerrancy of scripture became an issue following the Protestant Reformation, and reached its climax in the “International Council on Biblical Inerrancy” held in Chicago in October 1978, which issued the “Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy”. According to the Wikipedia article on the subject:


The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy is a written statement of belief formulated by more than 200 evangelical leaders at a conference, convened by the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy, and held in Chicago in October 1978. The statement was designed to defend the position of biblical inerrancy against a trend toward liberal conceptions of Scripture. Link


And as far as I am concerned, the doctrine of the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture is not an issue from an LDS theological point of view (as previously discussed, see here).


Then he displays a clip from a video showing first Jordan Peterson, followed by (atheist) Alex O'Connor, in which Alex points to certain passages in the Old Testament which appear to condone slavery (Exodus 21; Deuteronomy 15:12-15; 1 Chronicles 2:34-35), thus concluding that Old Testament scripture is not moral or ethical—and therefore could not have been divinely inspired—and Jacob Hansen agrees! That is another argument he brings against the doctrine of the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture—especially Old Testament scripture. His argument basically is that since slavery is inherently wrong, immoral, and unethical; and there are passages in the Old Testament that appear to condone slavery; therefore those passages are not divinely inspired, and could not have originated from a just, loving, caring, and righteous God. That is his main argument.


The point to be noted here is that in ancient cultures—both Hebrew and non-Hebrew cultures, in both Old and New Testament times, in both Christian and non-Christian cultures—if you needed a domestic servant such as a cook, a gardener, a housekeeper, a nurse, a house maid etc., you would go and buy one. There was no such thing as “employing” a domestic servant in those days, and paying them a monthly “salary” or “wage”—and them being free to leave your “employment” anytime they wanted to. Such a thing did not exist in any ancient cultures—Jewish or non-Jewish, Old or New Testament Times, Christian or non-Christian cultures. There were also “hired servants” in those days to do temporary jobs, such as harvesting a field, or working on a construction site etc., who were then paid an hourly wage, according to the labor that they performed (e.g. Matthew 20:1-8; Luke 15:17,19; John 10:12-13). But there was no such thing as “employing” a domestic servant (permanently) on those terms. Those were only bought and sold. This was true not only of the Old Testament times, but also of New Testament times (e.g. Ephesians 6:5-9; Colossians 3:22-4:1; 1 Timothy 6:1-2; Titus 2:9-10; 1 Peter 2:18-20). These all referred to permanently owned domestic servants—or “slaves” if you wanted to use modern terminology for it—although that would not be accurate.


The problem with the word “slave” in modern English is that it is culturally and psychologically associated with ill-treatment, injustice, and abuse—which was not the case in ancient times. It doesn’t mean that abuses didn’t exist in those days. But in general, it was considered a great honor, privilege, and blessing to be a “servant” (“slave” in modern English) to a righteous, generous, and benevolent master. If you acquired a domestic servant in those conditions, then they became your “property,” you “owned” them; and if they were female, that also gave you the legal and legitimate right to have sex with them, because they were your “property,” you “owned” them. That was true of all cultures in ancient times—in Old as well as New Testament times. Very beautiful young women were bought and sold in the “slave market” at very high prices. You had to be very rich to be able to afford to buy one! If you saw one that you absolutely fell in love with, and you had to sell half your property to be able to afford to buy her, that is what you would do! In the Old testament passages that these folks are referring to, God is instituting laws to make those practices more humane. He is not “condoning slavery”. Under Old Testament Jewish law for example, if such a “servant” (“slave” if you prefer) was abused by his master, and escaped and sought protection, they had the right of protection (Deuteronomy 23:15-16). They could not be delivered back to their cruel masters. No other culture or society had such rules, as far as I know. Therefore far from “endorsing slavery,” the Old Testament rules ensured that the practice was made more humane. That is evidence that they were inspired by God. Therefore far from undermining the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture, they support it. After showing the video clip, he then comments on it as follows:


Here is the reality; the Bible contains contradictions; and atheists like Alex love to point those out, because creedal Christians assume biblical infallibility.


Wrong on all accounts! No contradictions! What he is implying is that those passages in the Old Testament undermine or contradict the underlying moral and ethical basis of the Bible—which of course they don’t, for the reasons explained above. And the infallibility and inerrancy of scripture is not a “creedal” issue. He then continues:


But what Alex does not account for is that the verses like these are an anomaly, that contradict the theme of the biblical corpus; which central theme is that we are all made in the image of God; and so loved and so valued that no matter what our circumstances, Christ was willing to die for us.


Wrong again, no contradictions! The Old Testament rules on “servanthood” (which is the more correct way of describing it) were given by God to humanize the process, and eliminate abuse as much as possible. They are evidence of divine inspiration of scripture—specifically Old Testament scripture in this case—and not the opposite. He then continues:


And Alex [O’Connor] does not realize that the very reason he opposes slavery at all is because he was raised in a Western culture, deeply influenced by the themes of the Bible rather than specific passages that contradict those themes.


Wrong again! The “specific passages” of the Bible that he is referring to do not “contradict those themes,” as explained above. And he finally concludes:


Now all of this is much more easily resolved from a Latter-day Saint paradigm because we hold to biblical reliability rather than the God-breathed word for word biblical infallibility.


Wrong on all accounts. Firstly, LDS theology has no issue whatsoever with biblical infallibility and inerrancy—as previously discussed here; and “God breathed” is a biblical expression (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Secondly, there is no such distinction between “reliability” and “infallibility” in scriptural terms; they both amount to the same thing. “Reliable” for what, to teach all kinds of errors and false doctrines? Scripture cannot be “reliable” if it is not infallible and inerrant. “Reliability” and “infallibility” amount to the same thing in the scriptural context.


Thursday, May 15, 2025

More on Scripture Fallibility From Thoughtful Faith!

 


I came across the above video from Thoughtful Faith Channel, again challenging or questioning the reliability and authenticity of scripture—specifically the Old Testament this time. Again it is a long video, over an hour long, and it would be a bit tedious to unpack it all, and discuss it in detail. I may try to do that later on, when I get some time. But to be brief, the message it tries to convey is well expressed in the video title: “Why The Old Testament Is The LEAST RELIABLE Of All Scripture. And Why That’s Good News”. In other words, the message it tries to convey is that the Old Testament is not a reliable book of ancient scripture. The quickest and best way to respond to it is to quote from numerous passages in the New Testament, especially from Jesus himself, and also from his prophets and Apostles, which contradict it. I did a word search, and found that the word “scripture” occurs 52 times in the New Testament (KJV)—all of them referring to the Old Testament—because the New Testament hadn’t been compiled yet. And they all affirm the reliability and infallibility of Old Testament scripture. Here are the quotes, nearly half of them coming from Jesus himself:


Matthew 21:


42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?


Matthew 22:


29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.


Matthew 26:


54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

• • •

56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Mark 12:


10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

11 This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• • •

24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?


Mark 14:


49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.


Mark 15:


28 And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.


Luke 4:


20 And he closed the book [of scripture], and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. …

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Luke 24:


25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

• • •

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

• • •

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:


John 2:


22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


John 5:


38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.


John 7:


37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

• • •

41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?

42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?


John 10:


35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


John 13:


18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.


John 17:


12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


John 19:


24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

• • •

28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

• • •

36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

John 20:


9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.


Acts 1:


16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.


Acts 8:


32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

• • •

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.


Acts 17:


2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

• • •

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


Acts 18:


24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

• • •

28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.


Romans 1:


2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;


Romans 4:


3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


Romans 9:


17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.


Romans 10:


11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Romans 11:


2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,


Romans 15:


4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.


Romans 16:


26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


1 Corinthians 15:


3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Galatians 3:


8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

• • •

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


Galatians 4:


30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.


1 Timothy 5:


18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.


2 Timothy 3:


15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


James 2:


8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

• • •

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


James 4:


5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?


1 Peter 2:


6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.


2 Peter 1:


19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


2 Peter 3:


16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


These scriptures all speak against their theorising. And Joseph Smith in his inspired version did far more editorial changes in the text of the New Testament than he did in the Old Testament. He added some big chunks to the Old Testament, which are now published separately in the Pearl of Great Price; but in the actual text of the Old Testament, he did far fewer editorial changes than he did in the New Testament. These changes are now printed in the footnotes, as well as in the appendix, in the LDS edition of the KJV, for the benefit of those who might be interested in making a comparison.


And even assuming that their theorising were true, that would certainly not be “good news” for Latter-day Saints. I don’t see how or why it would be. And luckily, it is not true!