On the Interpretation of Paul’s “Third Heaven”

 

Pastor Jeff McCullough has just posted another video on his channel, this time answering some questions asked by viewers in relation to his previous video regarding the Latter-day Saint understanding of the afterlife, and the “three levels of heaven,” or “three degrees of glory”. I am only interested in his answer to the first question that he is responding to, asked by someone by the name of Larry, as follows:

“2 Corinthians 12:2, talked about being caught up in the third heaven. Would degrees of glory be reasonable to interpret?” –Larry

To this he then gives the following answer (emphasis added):

“This is a fantastic question. I am glad you asked it, Larry. Let’s actually look at 2 Corinthians, and I will give my best take on this passage: ‘I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.’ (2 Cor. 2:12-14, NIV) So Paul is basically talking about going to heaven; and the question is, Why does he call it the ‘third heaven?’ Well, this is tied to an ancient understanding of the cosmos. In a lot of the ancient world, and it is reflected in a lot of the scriptures, there were sort of three levels of how people understood ‘up’. You have one level, which is the air, and the clouds, and the birds; and then the second level was where you have the stars and the planets, and all those other things in the universe as we know it; and then beyond that is where God’s presence is, or heaven. And ancient people believed that that is where God—and even in non-Christian context, the gods, lived. This is why when Jesus died and rose from the dead, he ‘ascended’ to the father, because of this idea that the heavens are ‘upward’. So the reason why I believe Paul is talking about a ‘third level of heaven,’ that he had this vision, is not necessarily the levels of heaven as outlined in the LDS Church, but he is just speaking within what people understood as: ‘I didn’t just go up into the sky, I didn’t just go up into the stars, I went into heaven, into the very presence of God, where I saw and experienced things that I can’t even express.’ Good question.”

The highlighted bit is not something that he has picked up from impartial and unbiased sources, reflecting ancient cultural beliefs regarding the nature of heaven. He has picked that up from biased sources trying to interpret Paul in such a way that it does not give support to the Latter-day Saint view of heaven. That interpretation of Paul’s understanding of the nature of heaven has become very popular on the Internet for this reason, so that a simple search is likely to bring that up at the top of the search result. You have to dig a bit deeper to get to the truth of the matter. The truth of the matter is that the “ancient understanding of the cosmos” has been that there are in fact seven levels of heaven. That has been the most common view in most cultures and traditions, including Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and many others. That is the view that is expressed in the Jewish Talmud for example. It is also the view that became popular among Christians during the Middle ages. It is also the common view in Islam, and expressed in the Quran (41:12; 65:12; 67:3-4). It has been the popular view among several other religions as well. There is a good article about it in Wikipedia which can be seen here.

Paul, having been a Pharisee, would have been familiar with this Jewish cultural view of heaven. If he was expressing the “cultural” view of heaven at the time, he should have talked about being caught up to the seventh heaven, not the “third heaven”. The fact that he expressed it the way he did, proves that he was not reflecting the cultural views of the time. He was speaking theologically, and expressing the correct doctrine of heaven as it was revealed to him in his vision. He was not mixing his divine revelation and experience with pagan traditions.

It is also true that in the Bible, the word “heaven” is used in more than one sense. For example when in Genesis it says that “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Gen. 1:1; 2:4), it uses the word “heaven” to refer to everything that is “not earth”. It is not using “heaven” in the sense of a “place of salvation,” or the place where “God resides”. Similarly, when Jeremiah talks about the “birds of the heavens” (Jer. 4:25), it is obvious that he is talking about the “birds of the air,” not the place where the “saved” go to. It doesn’t require too much brain power to figure out that when Paul talks about a “third heaven,” that he is not contrasting the place where God dwells, with the place where birds fly. He is dividing heaven itself, the place in which God and his angels, his seraphim and cherubim, and other heavenly “creatures” (e.g. Revelation 4–6) dwell into three different categories. So Pastor Jeff McCullough has once again demonstrated that he is not as unbiased and impartial in his discussion of the theology and doctrinal beliefs of Latter-day Saints as he likes to think that he is.

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P. S.

One more question raised in his video that requires a brief comment concerns his own denominational affiliation. He likes to suggest that he is theologically neutral and “non-denominational;” but the theology that he is influenced by, and is in favor of and is promoting, is very much “Reformed,” and in the category of “Calvinism”—although he may genuinely believe that he is being neutral on that issue.

Comparing Beliefs Regarding Heaven!

Pastor Jeff McCullough hasn’t been very active in posting videos on his YouTube channel lately. Perhaps he has decided to be a bit more careful, after reading my replies! That would be a very wise thing for him to do of course! He has, however, just put out one of his “short” videos—testing the waters perhaps, to see if I am still alive, and will be responding to it or not! 😀 The title of the video is, “Do Mormons and Christians believe in the same heaven?” This video is tiny, less than a minute long, in which he compares the Latter-day Saint idea of “heaven” with that of the traditional Christian view. He had previously posted a longer video on this subject to which I had replied; but since this is a very short video, it makes it possible to give it a more detailed reply. He begins as follows:

“Do Mormons and Christians believe in the same heaven? Joseph Smith taught that there are three levels of heaven, and almost every human that has ever lived will go to one of these three heavens, based on their level of righteousness while on earth. LDS Church members live with the aspiration of making it to the highest level of heaven, where their Heavenly Father lives, with the hope of progressing further to godhood with their eternal families.”

That is not an accurate representation of the Church’s theology of the afterlife, specifically of attaining the highest or the Celestial glory. That criteria is defined and expressed in the following verses in modern scripture (emphasis added):

Doctrine and Covenants 76:

50 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just—

51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—

52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;

53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.

58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—

59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

60 And they shall overcome all things.

61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.

62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.

63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.

64 These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.

65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.

66 These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.

67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.

68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.

69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.

70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.

Based on that description, Jeff’s description of the Latter-day Saints’ view of the highest heaven is not accurate at best. He makes the following incorrect or inaccurate statements:

(1) “… almost every human that has ever lived will go to one of these three heavens.” Not accurate. There are many who don’t, but abide in hell forever. These include murderers, and those who commit the unpardonable sin—and their numbers are not so few as some think. Their identity and fate is described in D&C 76:28-49.

(2) “… based on their level of righteousness while on earth …” Not accurate either. As explained in the above quote, faith has as much to do with it, if not more than, righteousness. Also required is a firm commitment to serve God at all hazards, and being “valiant in the testimony of Jesus” (D&C 76:79). They “overcome by faith” (D&C 76:53). None of that could be accomplished without faith—but at the same time, it is not “faith alone” either.

(3) “LDS Church members live with the aspiration of making it to the highest level of heaven …” Not accurately stated. It is not just an “aspiration”. Provided that requirements are met (faith, repentance, baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost, keeping God’s commandments, remaining faithful to the end), the outcome is guaranteed. And “his commandments are not grievous” (1 John 5:3). That means that they are not hard to keep. And if sins are committed, they can be remitted through confession and genuine repentance.

(4) “… with the hope of progressing further to godhood.” Also incorrectly stated. Attaining to the Celestial Kingdom or glory, and attaining to deification, theosis, divinization, or “godhood” is simultaneous. They take place at the same time. One is the direct consequence of the other. To enter the Celestial Kingdom and be deified is one and the same thing. There is no such thing as “progressing” to “godhood” after entering into that Kingdom. You are already deified when you attain a Celestial glory.

The only thing that needs to be added here is that the “commandment” mentioned in verses 51-52 refers specifically to baptism (see Moses 6:59-60; Alma 7:15-16). Baptism is a must, because it is a commandment; and it is an indication of our willingness to keep all of God’s commandments. In the Bible, the remission of sins is directly linked to baptism (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 2:38; 22:16). It is not “optional,” as in Calvinism or Evangelicalism. And it can’t be performed by just anybody either. It is a true sacrament, that requires proper divine authority to be administered faithfully and acceptably before God. “And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron” (Heb. 5:4). He then continues as follows:

“The rest of Christianity believes that there is only one heaven, and that it is an eternal paradise not because of the type of place it is, but because of who is there, God.”

Which doesn’t agree with 1 Corinthians 15:40-43, as discussed in my other post. According to that Scripture, in heaven there are bodies with the glory of the sun, bodies with the glory of the moon, and bodies with the glory of the stars, etc. That means that everyone in heaven will not be equally privileged. Some will enjoy a greater glory than others. He continues:

“Christians believe the Bible teaches that humanity was created for God’s presence, and that is what was lost when sin entered the world.”

No arguments, see above. He continues:

“Eternal hope isn’t tied to our ability to progress to God’s presence. True hope is found in the free gift of restored relationship with God, offered when Jesus defeated sin on the cross, and death through his resurrection.”

Not without repentance, as previously discussed. And as already explained, “progress” is not the right word to use to describe the theology of the Church on the subject. It is not a terminology that is used in scripture to describe what is happening there. The theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is derived exclusively from Scripture, without any extraneous words added to it. He continues:

“Christians don’t believe there is a need to progress further once we get to heaven, because the Bible teaches we will have everything we will need in God’s eternal loving presence.”

Neither do Latter-day Saints. The only thing that can be acquired further once the Celestial Kingdom is obtained is further glorification. Just as God continually “glorifies” himself by what he does (John 12:28; 13:32; 17:1; 21:19); so the Saints are continually glorified in heaven (Abraham 3:26). But describing it in terms of “progressing” is incorrect, and not how the scripture refers to it. Some Latter-day Saints in the past may have mistakenly or casually expressed it in those terms; but it is not an accurate reflection of how the scripture refers to it. Then he concludes his short video with this closing sentence:

“These are the main differences between the Latter-day Saint belief in heaven, and the rest of Christianity.”

Latter-day Saints are lucky that they have additional scripture, more word of the Lord, that enables them to acquire more knowledge of divine and spiritual things, the things of God, than traditional Christianity is able to have from the study of the Bible alone. Christians are indeed very fortunate and privileged have the Bible, and obtain their theology and doctrine from it, no denying that. But Latter-day Saints have more, which enables them to have even more insight into theology, sound doctrine, and divine truth which others cannot have. The “rest of Christianity” would be far better off learning more divine truth from Latter-day Saints, or from their revealed scriptures, than by criticizing and finding fault.

Pastor’s [not so honest] Thoughts on Joseph Smith!

 

Following my previous two blog posts, commenting on Pastor Jeff McCullough’s recent videos about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, he has just published his latest video, in which he discusses the person of Joseph Smith and his accomplishments, and which I will be commenting on in this post. He begins his comments as follows:

“Hello Saints! For those of you who don’t know who I am, my name is Jeff. I am a Christian pastor exploring everything I can about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And whether at the end of the day I end up agreeing or disagreeing with various aspects of the LDS Church, I want to make the best effort I can to actually understand, and to fight criticism with curiosity; which is why I want to make sure I have a better understanding of the person of Joseph Smith; which is why I read the book, Rough Stone Rolling. If you are an LDS Church member, I am sure you know what this book is. But it is a biography of Joseph Smith that is written by an actual LDS Church member. So I am going to give you my five impressions of Joseph Smith, and my five main takeaways from Rough Stone Rolling. Let’s dive in:”

He divides his commentary into five sections, the first three of which I am going to skip, and jump to the fourth section, where he actually starts discussing and criticizing Joseph Smith’s prophetic claims and ministry. So at around 5:29 minutes into the video he begins his “fourth” observation as follows:

“Number four: In full honesty, I did finish Rough Stone Rolling, and understanding who Joseph Smith was, with less confidence about his claims that he was a prophet. I struggled with why there were so many different versions of the First Vision, and why there seemed to be some inconsistencies there.”

That is because he didn’t look far enough. There are different versions because Joseph Smith at various times in his life related the account to different people with varying degrees of detail. Sometimes he was very brief, and at another time he supplied more detail. The important point is that there are no contradictions in the different accounts, only more or less detail. There is an interesting “harmony” of the various accounts of the First Vision on the Internet, showing that there are no contradictions between them. It can be seen here. If I observed a car accident, and related the story to ten different people at various times over a period of twenty years, all the accounts are not going to be identical. Some will contain more detail than others. That doesn’t mean that they are contradictory, only that some are more detailed. He then continues as follows:

“I believe that the Bible teaches that true prophets are 100% right all the time in the prophecies that they make; and if any of their prophecies don’t come true, then they should be considered a false prophet. There are a lot of things that didn’t come true; for example the building of the temple in Independence; and I am willing to leave the door open for explanations as to why that may be the case.”

Which “lots of things”? All of his prophecies either have come true, or remain to be fulfilled in the future; and what was said by the Lord about the building of the temple at Independence, Missouri, was not a “prophecy,” it was a commandment. Just because the word “shalt” occurs in there, does not make it a prophecy. “Thou shalt not kill,” “Thou shalt not steal” etc. (Exodus 20:13, 15), are not “prophecies,” but commandments. The context of the passage he is referring to likewise proves that it is a commandment, not a prophecy, or a prediction:

Doctrine and Covenants 84:

3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

That is a commandment to build the city and the temple, not a “prophecy” that it will be. The Saints at that time were not sufficiently faithful, and therefore were not able to fulfill the commandment at that time, and therefore it was postponed for another time:

Doctrine and Covenants 105:

9 Therefore, in consequence of the transgressions of my people, it is expedient in me that mine elders should wait for a little season for the redemption of Zion.

But it was not a “prophecy” that it should have “failed”. A similar event occurs in the history of ancient Israel:

Numbers 13:

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them.

The Lord promised the Israelites at that time that he would give them the promised land. But because of their unfaithfulness, that particular generation did not receive the promised blessing (Num. 14:22–24), but it was given to their descendants many years later (Num. 14:33; 32:13). A similar thing happened to the Latter-day Saints in the events described above. It was not a “prophecy” that it should have failed. It was a promised blessing which they failed to realize, as with the Israelites in Num. 14:22–24. I found a good resource on the prophecies of Joseph Smith in an article on Wikipedia which can be seen here. He should consult these before making false accusations about Joseph’s supposed “failed” prophecies. If he is truly honest and sincere in his claim to want to be an impartial observer, in his next video he should apologize to Latter-day Saints for making false statements about Joseph Smith’s supposed “failed” prophecies. Then he continues:

“But even beyond that, his claim to be able to translate scriptures in this role of this prophetic voice, not just with the Book of Mormon, and the methods that he used with the seer stone, and some of these other things; but even what occurred with the Book of Abraham; and how we are able to translate the source material for the Book of Abraham; and it is not consistent with what he translated. I know that the Church has an explanation for this, but if I am going to be honest from a pastor’s perspective, this seems to be a lot of calisthenics that are being done to explain something that seemed very clearly contradictory to what he claimed about himself.”

Unbelievers have always existed in every age and in every dispensation; that is nothing new. But it has always been their loss, not anybody else’s. Paul said it best: “But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness” (1 Cor. 1:23). Likewise we teach that Joseph Smith was a great prophet of the Lord, who translated scripture by the “gift and power of God”—which to the unbelievers is a “stumbling block” and “foolishness”. But that is okay. It is their loss, not ours. They will discover their error on judgment day, when it will be too late to do anything about it—unless they repent of course, before it is too late. He then continues:

“Most of all, I think one of the reasons why I struggle with his claim of being a prophet, because it seems like a lot of the things that he taught contradicts what the Bible teaches: that God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man. I believe that the Bible teaches that God is not a man, that God is God, and that we were created in his image, and that he has always existed as God, eternities past through eternities future; and that has never changed, and that will never change. So this idea that God has been progressing himself, and becoming more of God, is not what I believe the Bible teaches; and makes you really question Joseph Smith’s claim to be a prophet.”

That goes into a lot of deep theology, which would be a bit of a waste of time to try and engage with him. Suffice it to say that I have no problems with Joseph Smith’s teachings on those subjects, and I do not believe they contradict the Bible in any way. He continues:

“One other line that stuck out to me out of the King Follett Sermon, was God himself finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. So in other words, this is saying that we who are humans can progress into a place of Godhood.”

Same thing here. Suffice it to say that Joseph Smith was not the first to come up with the idea that men can become gods; the early Christians, and all the Early Church Fathers came up with that idea first, long before Joseph Smith. See here for lots of quotes and examples. He continues:

“Now I know that the LDS Church is trying to make sense of these things, and explain them, because they seem to not totally line up with what the Book of Mormon teaches. But to me, they all point to the same question that I have about whether or not Joseph Smith actually was a prophet.”

The prophetic appointment and calling of Joseph Smith can only be known by the witness of the Spirit; through a sincere, honest, impartial, and prayerful study of his revelations, notably the Book of Mormon; without prejudice, and with a sincere desire to know the truth—and with a commitment to follow it through when that truth is revealed. That is how claims of all true prophets can be known. It cannot be known in any other way. He continues:

“And last but not least, my fifth takeaway from Rough Stone Rowling is that it seems that Joseph Smith was a little bit more rigid about his convictions about the LDS Church, and how all of that compares to the rest of Christianity; that all other Christian creeds were an abomination; and that seemed very clear to me the rigidity of those things, the rigidity of that belief in the exclusiveness of the LDS Church having the right belief. Whereas now I get a lot of messages from the LDS Church that seems to say, No, we are actually very similar in a lot of ways, and we are actually more similar than we are different.”

That is incorrect and false on both accounts. He is getting all of that nonsense from anti-Mormon sources, not from legitimate, authoritative Church sources. Joseph Smith was not “rigidly against” other Christian churches, or against historic Christianity in general. He had good things to say about them. Here are a couple of direct quotes from him on that subject:

“The inquiry is frequently made of me. ‘Wherein do you differ from others in your religious views?’ In reality and essence we do not differ so far in our religious views, but that we could all drink into one principle of love. One of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’ is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may.” (Teachings, p. 313)

“Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truths? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true ‘Mormons’.” (Teachings, p. 316)

And the Church that he established is today no more or less conciliatory towards other Christian churches than Joseph Smith was. The Church today has not and does not compromise its “exclusivity” one little bit. It still maintains to be God’s one and only true Church on earth, possessing all the priesthood, prophetic, and Apostolic keys and authority of the original Church—while at the same time respecting many of the beliefs, teachings, traditions, and practises of historical Christianity—as did Joseph Smith. Nothing has changed from that point of view. And as far as the “creeds” are concerned, the Lord made those remarks to Joseph Smith in connection with the revivalist Protestant churches that Joseph Smith had encountered in the experience that he describes, which led him to ask the God which church he should join. It is specifically their “creeds” that were being condemned by the Lord, not the entire creeds of historical Christendom. Then he continues:

“That is a takeaway that I had from Joseph Smith, that really does make me scratch my head, and view the posture and some of the things that are being stated from the LDS Church in a modern day, that seems to be a little bit more open-handed about the cooperation that can take place between the LDS Church and the rest of Christianity.”

He didn’t get those ideas from the biography of Joseph Smith, Rough Stone Rolling, nor from official Church sources. He has picked them up from anti-Mormon sources, which he does not now want to tell us about. In the days of Joseph Smith, both him as well as the fledgling Church that he had established were under constant attack by the traditional Protestant churches of his day, which allowed no room for reconciliation or “cooperation” between them. What has changed since then is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today has become far more numerous in its membership, and therefor more influential, and a force to be reckoned with, than it was in his day. It is now the fourth largest church in the United States. That obliges other Christian churches to treat it with more respect than they used to do, which in turn makes a greater cooperation between them possible. As an example, see this video of a recent speech given by Elder David A. Bednar at an event hosted by the National Press Club (NPC) on the 26^th of May 2022. So what has really changed is not us, but them. He has got it all backwards. The restored Church of Jesus Christ hasn’t changed, or its attitude towards other churches hasn’t changed; they have changed, or their attitude towards us have changed; which makes a greater cooperation between us possible. He continues:

“He seemed like a man of very strong convictions, and he was willing to die for these things. So that main takeaway is something that I am trying to reconcile, even as I interact with current LDS Church members, and how they seem to be more open-handed than Joseph Smith was.”

See above. He continues:

“There were a lot of takeaways I am not talking about, because I want to make other videos about it, which is why you need to like this video, and subscribe and come back for more. …”

So far I haven’t been terribly impressed. He seems to be too ready to dismiss the claims of Joseph Smith based on biased, false, and tendentious claims and accusations of anti-Mormons, and Joseph’s critics, which seems to cast doubt on his claims of fairness and impartiality. He certainly owes Latter-day Saints an apology for falsely accusing Joseph Smith of “failed prophecies,” or of giving contradictory accounts of the “First Vision” etc. The ultimate witness of Joseph Smith’s prophetic claims, however, is the Book of Mormon, which he seems to be scared to death of reading and comprehensively commenting on!

Pastor Learns About Mormon Afterlife!?

 

That is the title of the original video—although I think that it is the wrong title! A more accurate title of the video would have been: “Pastor Gets His Theology of the Afterlife Badly Wrong!”

In my previous post I had commented on a video that Pastor Jeff McCullough had posted in his YouTube channel discussing a video put out by the Church regarding the Book of Mormon. In this post I am going to discuss another video recently put out by Pastor Jeff on his channel, discussing another video by the Church about the doctrine of the afterlife in the theology of Latter-day Saints. This video is also on the Church’s YouTube channel, and can be seen here. This video unfortunately is not very well done, and is not an accurate representation of the Church’s theology concerning the afterlife. The Church’s doctrine of the afterlife is best taught in sections 76 and 88 of the Doctrine and Covenants, to which the interested reader is referred. He begins his commentary by playing the first short introductory sentence from the Church’s video, and commenting on it as follows:

“Each of God’s children will be raised to one of three levels.”

“This just happens to be a topic where there is a lot of differences, so I hope you don’t mind me pointing those out. Hello Saints! My name is Jeff, and I am a Christian pastor exploring everything I can about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I would love it if you would like this video, and subscribe to my channel, and go on this journey with me; because I talk about really important topics. For example, today I am going to be comparing and contrasting the view between the LDS Church and the rest of Christianity on one of the most important questions that all of us contemplate, and that is, what happens when you die? So today I am going to be reacting to a video put out by the LDS Church, and I am going to give you my reaction and my perspective, compare the similarities and the differences. let’s dive in.”

Then he plays the next clip from the Church’s video as follows:

“Do members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe in heaven and hell? Mormons, properly referred to as Latter-day Saints, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do in fact believe in a heaven and hell. Latter-day Saint understanding of the fate of the human soul after death is based on the teachings from the Bible and other scripture revealed by God through his ancient and modern prophets.”

To which he adds the following comment:

“Okay, so far there is agreement. The rest of Christianity does teach that there is a heaven and a hell in the afterlife. As to whether or not those are defined the same way, I am not sure, so let’s keep going.”

Then he displays the next clip as follows:

“In the New Testament the Apostle Paul taught this concept to the Corinthians, as he expounded on the resurrection of the body after death, ‘There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial; there is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; so also is the resurrection of the dead.’ Latter-day Saints agree with Paul, that during the resurrection each of God’s children will be raised to one of three levels or degrees of glory, comparable to that of the sun, moon, and stars.”

To which he then adds the following comment:

“Alright, so this is a really fascinating, handling of this passage in 1 Corinthians 15; because it sounds like what this video is teaching is that in this passage, Paul is talking about different degrees of glory in heaven; and if you read 1 Corinthians 15, it is pretty clear that what Paul is doing is, he is using creation to help his audience understand how we might exist as resurrected beings in the future. In other words if we die, and this body dies, and the soul continues, and then we receive a resurrected body because of what Jesus did through his resurrection; he is trying to help his audience understand that it is possible for there to be different types of material bodies, in the same way that in creation you have the sun, the moon, and the stars different types of celestial bodies; so I don’t believe that that passage is talking about different degrees of heaven. It is talking about different types of bodies, which is what he is talking about in the rest of the chapter; and causes me to hit the breaks there on the LDS interpretation of that passage. But I am intrigued as to where this goes from here, so let’s keep watching:”

His interpretation of that passage of scripture is meaningless, within the context in which it occurs. Why should there be “different kinds of bodies” after the resurrection, possessing different “glories,” if it has no bearing on their state of salvation, and the degree of happiness or privileges that they might enjoy? If resurrected bodies have different “glories,” that means that they are not all equally privileged. Let’s go back a few steps, and retrace what the Bible teaches about the resurrection in general. The Bible teaches that everyone will be resurrected, meaning that their spirits and bodies will be reunited (in the same way that Jesus’ was), after which they will be brought into judgment for how they have lived their lives in the world:

Daniel 12:

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 27:

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

John 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Corinthians 15:

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Thessalonians 4:

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 20:

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

So there is no question that the Bible teaches that there is going to be a resurrection of the dead, meaning that the their spirits and bodies will be restored or reunited; and there will be “no more death”:

Revelation 21:

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

1 Corinthians 15:

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

So far, so good. There can be no disagreement so far, that we all die, that we will all be resurrected, and we will be judged, and that we will never die again—not physically, or naturally, in the sense of spirits and bodies being separated. The Bible also talks about something called a “second death,” which is simply another term for the punishment of hell (Rev. 21:8). It is a separation from God, not a separation of the spirit and the body. So far we can agree. To all of that now Paul adds something very curios; he says:

1 Corinthians 15:

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

So according to Paul, everybody will not be resurrected the same. People will be resurrected with bodies possessing different levels or degrees of glory. One thing is obvious, that he is not talking about people who end up in hell. There will be no “glory” there. He is talking about people who end up in heaven. He is saying that they will not all be the same. They will enjoy different degrees or levels of glory, or their bodies will possess different levels or degrees of glory. That means that they will not all be the same, and therefore they will not all be equally privileged. That means that heaven is not the same for everyone. It is not a “one size fits all”. Some will enjoy greater privileges, glories, etc. than others, and consequently will be happier than others. Paul also speaks of a “third heaven” (2 Corinthians 12:2), implying that there is also “first” and a “second” heaven. That contradicts his theology, that heaven is all one place, and everyone in it will be equally privileged, and all will be equally happy. That is not the description of heaven that Paul gives. Then he plays the next clip from the Church’s video as follows:

“Latter-day Saints learn more about these degrees of glory through revelations that were given by God to the prophet Joseph Smith, the first prophet and president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Latter-day Saints believe each of these kingdoms is a degree of glory, and can be considered a type of heaven. Joseph Smith taught that the highest degree of glory, or highest degree of heaven, is called the Celestial Kingdom, and is where God and his Son Jesus Christ dwell. He also taught about the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms. Even the lowest kingdom, the Telestial Kingdom, is a degree of glory, comparable to the glory of the distant stars. While this degree is reserved for those who lived lives of ill intent and hatred for the things of God, they nevertheless receive a measure of glory from a loving and just Heavenly Father. The Terrestrial Kingdom, with its brighter glory comparable to that of the moon, is the reward for those who lead good and honorable lives, but who never fully embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ. The highest degree of glory, the Celestial Kingdom, comparable to the brilliance of the sun, offers a reward of life forever in the presence of God, and his Son Jesus Christ. There they may inherit all that the Father has.”

This unfortunately is not an accurate representation of the theology of the Church on this subject. Those who inherit the Telestial Kingdom or glory, still experience a period of punishment in hell. It is only after they are purged through punishment that they are redeemed, and inherit the Telestial Kingdom (see D&C 76:84-85). In other words, their sins and transgressions do not go unpunished. Modern scripture also speaks of another kingdom which is “not a kingdom of glory” (D&C 88:24). So there are in fact four different kingdoms to which people can be assigned after the resurrection (or possibly five, if one includes the permanent hell to which “sons of perdition”—those who commit the unpardonable sin—are assigned). So the video is not theologically accurate, and is not an accurate representation of the doctrine of the afterlife as taught in modern scriptures of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If Pastor Jeff McCullough wants to accurately learn and understand, and intelligently comment on and discuss Latter-day Saint theology and doctrine, his best bet is to go direct to the original authoritative sources, which are the canonized scriptures of the Church, rather than to secondary sources, such as this video that he is commenting on. The theology of the different “degrees of glory” of the Church is taught mainly in sections 76 and 88 of the book of Doctrine and Covenants, which should be the primary source of his information on the subject, rather than poorly executed videos of this kind—even though they appear to have the Church’s approval, and are published on the Church’s website. Anyways, he then comments on the above segment of the video as follows:

“Okay, so if I am understanding this properly, the LDS Church teaches that there are essentially three levels of heaven, and they are sort of understood based on their level of brightness, or level of glory, where the Celestial kingdom is brighter, the Terrestrial Kingdom is less bright, and the Telestial Kingdom is not very bright. And I have to say that this is an incredibly unique view that is not held in the rest of Christianity. So I am really interested to hear how the rest of this plays out.”

The more important consideration is whether it agrees with the teachings of the Bible or not; and based on the explanation given above, the answer has to be yes. 1 Corinthians 15 clearly teaches that following the resurrection, all in heaven will not enjoy the same privilege, or the same level of glory. Some will be resurrected with bodies with the glory of the sun, some with the glory of the moon, some with the glory of the stars; therefore they will not all be the same, or enjoy the same privilege. Therefore categorizing them into three different levels or degrees of glory is not inconsistent with 1 Corinthians 15. Then he plays the next clip as follows:

“Let’s back up a little; after death, what happens to the body? Latter-day Saints believe that after death, everyone who ever lived on earth will live forever with a physically perfected resurrected body.”

To which he then adds this comment:

“Okay, that is almost what the rest of Christianity teaches. The Bible does teach that everybody will be resurrected, but that doesn’t mean they are going to be resurrected to perfection. See what the Bible teaches in John, and in Thessalonians, and a few other passages, is that every human who has ever lived will be resurrected; but some unto glory to be with God, and some unto judgment. The Bible doesn’t teach that everybody will be resurrected into a perfected form. So that is a bit of a difference there too.”

That depends on what Latter-day Saints mean by being resurrected to a “perfected form,” and what he means by being resurrected “to perfection”. What Latter-day Saints mean by being resurrected with perfect bodies is that any physical defects or deformities that we may have experienced in this life, such as caused by illness, accidents, or birth defects etc., will not rise with us in the resurrection. If someone was born blind, or deaf, or lame etc.; or if they had experienced such defects or deformities as a result of sickness, violence, or accident; they will not continue to be afflicted with those after the resurrection. Nobody will be resurrected deaf, dumb, or blind; or with an arm or leg missing—even though they may have been afflicted with such defects during mortality. That has nothing to do with their wickedness or righteousness, or their salvation or damnation. Those defects will disappear in the resurrection—regardless of whether they are resurrected to salvation or damnation. What he appears to mean by being resurrected “to perfection,” however, is totally incongruous with the biblical text, and doesn’t make sense at all. He mentions “John,” and “Thessalonians,” and “others,” but doesn’t give any direct quotes so we know what he is talking about. Whether someone is resurrected to be saved or to be damned, it has nothing to do with the “perfectness” of their bodies when they are resurrected. The natural defects of mortality disappear in the resurrection, regardless of whether they are raised to salvation or damnation. That is the Latter-day Saint theological view, which also has biblical support from 1 Corinthians 15:42-44, 53; and is not contradicted by anything taught in the Bible. Nobody will be resurrected with a natural birth defect, regardless of whether they are raised to salvation or damnation. That is the Latter-day Saint theological position, which is not in any way contrary to the Bible. He then continues with the next video clip as follows:

“This is what Latter-day Saints mean when they use the term ‘immortality’. This is a gift from the Savior Jesus Christ. As a result of his Atoning Sacrifice, his death on the cross, and his resurrection, he overcame death, and opens the way for all of God’s children to be resurrected. Members of the Church further believe that while all of God’s children will be blessed with immortality, not all will receive eternal life.”

To this he then adds his own comments as follows:

“One thing that I am picking up on right now that I just want to speak to, is this whole idea of the term God’s children. From what I have been learning, I know the Book of Mormon teaches that every human pre-existed prior to them coming to earth. That is actually not something that the rest of Christianity believes in. That is not what we believe is taught in the scriptures. So this whole idea of referring to humanity as the children of God, that is actually something that you will hear a lot in culture, when people say, like ‘everybody is God’s children’. But that is not really what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches that we are fallen, and that only those who put their faith in Christ, only those who are saved by their faith, are adopted as God’s sons and daughters, and are considered his children. So the idea that every human is God’s child, and that they are going to receive immortality, is also unique to LDS teaching.”

The important consideration there is not what the “rest of Christianity” teaches, but what the Bible teaches; and the Bible does indeed teach that all mankind are the “children” of God:

Acts 17:

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

In these verses Paul identifies all mankind (believers and unbelievers alike) as the children of God—his “offspring”. I consider Paul to be a more authoritative source of Christian doctrine than Jeff McCullough! We also have this interesting passage of Scripture:

Luke 3:

37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which [Adam] was the son of God.

In this verse Adam is declared to be the son of God (by direct descent). Being called the “children of God” can have different meanings in different contexts, one of them is being created in the image of God. Every creature begets its offspring in its own image. A horse begets a horse. It does not beget a dog, a cat, a lion, tiger, giraffe, or a pigeon. The same applies to every other living creature (Genesis 1:24-25). The fact that, of all living creatures that God had made, he declared only mankind to have been made “in his own image” (Genesis 1:26-27), makes man unique among all of God’s creations, and sufficient grounds for calling mankind the “children of God”. That is 100% biblical, and is the basis on which Adam is declared to be “the son of God” in Luke 3:37-38. It is his false, apostate, morbid theology that is not biblical. And as far as “receiving immortality” is concerned, that again depends on what you mean by it. If you mean “living for ever and ever” (in heaven or hell, without experiencing further physical or natural death), that is a correct biblical doctrine. There will be no more physical or natural death after the resurrection—meaning the separation of the spirit and the body—regardless of whether one is saved or damned. But if you equate “immortality” with gaining salvation and eternal life, then everyone is not going to obtain it. It all depends on how you want to understand “immortality”. He then continues with his next clip from the video as follows:

“What is the difference, you ask? What does eternal life mean? It is an important element of the Latter-day Saint faith, and it simply means to dwell where God and Jesus Christ dwell, and to live as they live, within the highest glory in the Celestial Kingdom. This is also sometimes referred to as exaltation. It is an opportunity for one’s further progression to become like God and Jesus, and is a reward for the highest measure of faithfulness to the commandments of God.”

To this he then adds his own comment as follows:

“Okay, so this actually is starting to add up for me, based on a conversation I had with a sister missionary in the Assembly Hall in Temple Square a couple months ago—and that is, the difference between salvation and exaltation; which there is a difference between being saved, which when Jesus died on the cross, he brought salvation to mankind; but that is different from exaltation, which has to do with when we are resurrected, what that state of glory is going to be. And I think the rest of Christianity would agree that there is a difference between salvation and exaltation, they are distinct things; ...”

That requires some clarification and explanation. I have no idea what the difference between “salvation” and “exaltation” is in traditional Christian theology, to be able to compare it with how Latter-day Saints understand the difference between the two. He needs to explain that. He then continues as follows:

“... but I also remember the sister missionary telling me that someone can be saved by Jesus, because of what he did on the cross; but not go to the Celestial Kingdom, or to the highest heaven, where Heavenly Father lives; that is something that is very different from what the rest of the Bible teaches.”

Not according to the verses that I had previously discussed. 1 Corinthians 15 clearly teaches that not everyone who is saved, or goes to heaven, enjoys the same privileges or glory. Unless he can refute those, his argument is baseless. He continues:

“The Bible teaches that when Jesus died on the cross for those who put their faith in him, that they have been reconciled to God; and Paul actually talks about in 2 Corinthians, that to be absent from the body, or to be dead, is to be present with the Lord, or present with God the Father. The Bible teaches that when Jesus died on the cross, that we were reconciled to God; which means when we die, we have full access to the Father. So this idea of somebody being saved, and not having access to God because they are in a different level of glory, in a different exalted state, that is something that is very different between the LDS Church and the rest of Christianity. Let’s keep going:”

He is committing too many errors there, much of which was previously refuted. What he is now teaching is actually Calvinism, which is not the same thing as “the rest of Christianity”. He wants to tell us that Calvinism is the same as “the rest of Christianity,” which of course it is not. Then he plays the next segment from the Church’s video as follows:

“It is for those who receive God’s mercy through sincere faith in Jesus Christ, and repentance, through his Atonement. Simply put, heaven is the reward for one’s actions in this life, and the love of the Savior Jesus Christ through his merciful Atonement.”

And comments on it as follows:

“All right, let’s pick apart this passage right here. And I am not trying to be disagreeable; but there are some videos I do where there seems to be quite a bit of agreement between the LDS Church and the rest of Christianity. This just happens to be a topic where there is a lot of differences, so I hope you don’t mind me pointing those out. One of the most quoted passages of scripture in all of Christianity is in the book of Ephesians that says this: ‘For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is a gift from God; not by works, so that no one can boast.’ So to say that heaven is the reward for one’s actions, is just not consistent with what the Bible teaches.”

He is now preaching outright Calvinism, and equating it with “the rest of Christianity”. Calvinism is a relatively new phenomenon in the history of Christianity, and never has been, and is not now a majority theological opinion within Christianity. Calvinism is heretical and false, and is not biblical. The Bible teaches that we must repent of our sins, and keep the commandment of God to be saved; and that is not the same as “works”. When Paul talks about “works,” he means the works of the Law of Moses, which the Judaizers at that time were trying to impose on Christians. He didn’t mean that people don’t need to repent of their sins, and keep the commandments of God to be saved. Those are two different things. He then continues his criticism of the Church’s teachings as follows:

“Now there are rewards given in heaven for what we do; but heaven itself is where God’s presence resides; and anybody who puts their faith in him, and who walks by faith is saved, and gets to experience God’s presence—not because of their actions, but because of Jesus’s actions on the cross. That is the difference between understanding grace as something that is a true gift from God for those who put their faith in him; versus the belief that you have to somehow do works, or carry out actions in order to have access to God’s grace, or access to heaven.”

Still continuing to preach his abominable heresy of Calvinism! According to the Bible, heaven itself is a “reward,” not just what we receive in heaven when we get there:

Romans 2:

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Galatians 6:

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Acts 10:

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35 But in every nation [and religion] he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Revelation 22:

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

(I have discussed this subject at greater length in other blog posts such as these: [links: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5], with more references given.) According to these verses, salvation itself is a “reward” for righteousness (and damnation a recompense for wickedness). And “righteousness” (i.e. living a holy and consecrated life, repenting of one’s sins, and avoiding temptation, transgression, and sin etc.) are not “works”. That is the biblical requirement for being saved, or obtaining eternal life (see above quotes). He should do himself (and the rest of Christianity) a special favor, and quit equating the damnable heresy of Calvinism with “the rest of Christianity”. He then continues with the next clip from the video as follows:

“Do Latter-day Saints believe in hell? Yes, Latter-day Saints’ belief in hell can be thought of in two ways: First, it is the temporary waiting place prior to the resurrection in the postmortal spirit-world, for the spirits of those who are disobedient in mortality. For them, this hell is a type of “prison” spoken of by the Apostle Peter in the New Testament. He taught that God has provided a way for the gospel of Jesus Christ to be preached unto the “spirits in prison”. From this we learn, for some spirits hell has an end. Latter-day Saints believe all spirits will have an opportunity to accept or reject the gospel of Jesus Christ that will be taught to them [in the spirit-world].”

To which he then adds his own comments as follows:

“Okay, so initially I was hearing some things that are similar between the LDS Church belief in hell and the rest of Christianity, as far as it being a place where people who have not put their faith in God, or who died in their sin, will spend eternity separated from God. But the statement that was just made, that people in hell will have the opportunity to progress beyond hell, or progress out of it, that is not something that is taught in the rest of Christianity. There is the belief that those who reject God, those who live in their sin, those who don’t live by faith, will live eternally separated from God; and after one has died on this earth, there is not the opportunity to progress beyond that.”

That is of course incorrect and not biblical. The Bible agrees with the beliefs of Latter-day Saints:

Matthew 5:

26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence [i.e. from hell], till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Luke 12:

47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

1 Peter 3:

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Matthew 12:

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

According to these verses, hell is not a “one size fits all” (any more than heaven is). Some in hell will be “beaten with many stripes,” some with “few stripes”. Some will “come out thence” after they have paid the “uttermost farthing,” some will not be forgiven in this life or next. Why did Jesus descend into hell, and preach the gospel to the antediluvian sinners “which sometime were disobedient … in the days of Noah” (1 Peter 3:18-20); so that they might be “judged according to men in the flesh, …” (1 Peter 4:6), if it wasn’t going to do them any good? So the bottom line is that his theology is false, and Latter-day Saints have sound biblical doctrine. He then continues with the next clip from the video as follows:

“Heavenly Father loves his children, and a mansion of glory is available to all. God’s plan of happiness even provides a way that his children can return and live with him. The way is the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is this eternal aspiration to be with and like Heavenly Father and his Son Jesus Christ in the highest mansion of which Jesus taught that motivates Latter-day Saints to live lives of purpose, and to progress to love their families, and serve their communities; to follow the Savior in every way. The Latter-day Saint belief of heaven hell, and the degrees of glory. Now you know!”

That brings the Church video that he has been commenting on to a close, to which he then adds his concluding comments as follows:

“Okay, so to summarize, at the end of the day the thing that I want to make sure is clearly communicated from a non-LDS pastor’s perspective, is how strongly we feel that the Bible teaches that one is not saved by their actions, but they are saved by faith; and the grace of God is a free gift based on what Jesus did on the cross, and that anybody who puts their faith in Jesus will have full access to God the Father.”

Utterly erroneous and false. That is the “belief” of the damnable heresy of Calvinism, and not of the “rest of Christianity”. He should learn to quit equating the two. And Latter-day Saints don’t believe that they are “saved by their own actions”. We believe that we need to repent of our sins and keep the commandments of God to be saved, which is not the same thing. Calvinism is antithetical to repentance. It is a license to commit sin with impunity, and get away with it. It is an evil abomination, and a recipe for damnation rather than salvation. My advice to him is to abandon his heresy of Calvinism and save his own soul—instead of preaching it to other people. He then continues as follows:

“Once you have moved beyond this life. If you even read the book of Revelation, in the last few chapters it talks about the faithful, or those who did put their faith in God, being in his presence for eternity; and there is nothing to indicate that there are people in different levels who don’t have full access to God. That is a really important distinction, because that has implications as to how we live our life on this earth. Are we ‘progressing’ to somehow ‘earn access’ to God’s presence, or does salvation through Jesus’ death on the cross, and his resurrection give us full access to God, if we put our faith in him? That is the belief of the rest of Christianity, and has a pretty heavy implication on what we believe about what happens when you die, as opposed to what the LDS Church believes.”

The different “levels of glory” has already been discussed, with biblical references which he cannot refute; and as I said, repenting of our sins, keeping the commandments of God, and living a holy, virtuous, and consecrated life is not the same as “works,” or “earning your own salvation”. The Bible says this:

James 1:

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Calvinism is the antithesis of that. In Calvinism, “Visiting the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and keeping yourself unspotted from the world” is a sin! It is “works,” and you are damned! Calvinism is the most corrupt, evil, damnable, abominable, pernicious, perverse, Satanic, demonic, heresy that has ever arisen in Christendom since it came into existence. It curses anybody who goes anywhere near it. He then continues his criticism of Latter-day Saint theology as follows:

“Now I do think it is worth pointing out that even though we have a lot of teaching in the Bible about what happens after we die, the afterlife is still very mysterious. In fact in certain Christian circles, there are a lot of Christians who will disagree specifically about hell, as to what it is. Is it simply fire and darkness, or are people in hell eventually annihilated and no longer exist at all. But the general consensus and the rest of Christianity is that if you go all the way back to Genesis, humanity was created to live in the presence of God in the garden; and when sin fractured that relationship, and we now are separated from God, Jesus has come to restore that relationship, so that we can live in God’s presence forever. And since we were created to live in God’s presence forever, those who go to hell where God’s presence is not, that is a place of torment, because we were made to live in his presence. These are difficult considerations, and there is a lot of mystery involved. But at the end of the day, the consensus is in biblical Christianity, that those who put their faith in God through Jesus can have peace, to know that they will spend eternity in God’s presence, which is what we were created to do in the first place.”

Not without repentance (turning away from sin) and keeping the commandments of God—and abandoning the damnable heresy of Calvinism which teaches the opposite. He then continues:

“I know that there is a lot in this video that talks about more differences than similarities; but that is going to happen whenever we are comparing and contrasting. But I have really enjoyed understanding with a little bit greater detail what the LDS Church teaches, and I hope that you have gleaned something from me as far as what a pastor teaches from the Bible. ... So until next time, see you later Saints.”

Too little too late! No Latter-day Saint worthy of the name is going to fall for the abominable heresy of Calvinism, for sure! My advice to him is to abandon the heresy of Calvinism, and save his own soul.