John Piper on Exodus 20:5

I was watching the above video in which Leighton Flowers critiques John Piper’s response to a question that had been put to him as follows:

“What does it mean in Exodus 20:5 that God visits the iniquity of the fathers on the children? Does this refer to ‘generational sins’ or ‘generational curses’? How does this principle relate to us and to our children under the new covenant? Will my children somehow be punished for my own sins?”

But Leighton Flowers doesn’t do a very good job of analyzing John Piper’s remarks, and properly identifying, and directly challenging his exegetical errors. It may be that generally speaking, John Piper’s errors arise from his adherence to Calvinism; but merely critiquing his “Calvinism” does not identify or rectify the specific theological errors he has made in response to that question, and in his exegesis of Exodus 20:5. That scripture, quoted in context is as follows (emphasis added):

Exodus 20:

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John Piper gives the following response to that question (emphasis added):

“First, the sins of the fathers are punished in the children through becoming the children’s own sin. That is really crucial. So here is the key text: Exodus 20:5. ‘I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me.’ In other words, the hatred of God is the embodiment of what the father’s problem was.

“We are not told how the father’s sins become the children’s sins. That is a mysterious thing left in God’s mind. But they do. What we are told is that when father’s sins are visited on the children, it is because the children have become sinners like the fathers.

“The father’s sins are the children’s sins. So no innocent child has ever been punished for a father’s sins; only guilty children are punished and are guilty of the very sins that their fathers sinned. That is the first observation.”

In other words, his conclusion is that the fathers’ sins somehow become imputed to the children. The “children” become sinners by default, even if they themselves hadn’t done anything wrong. The highlighted bits demonstrate his errors. The scriptures, however, do explain why the the sins of the fathers are visited on the children—and how it can be averted. First, Exodus 20:5 itself gives us a clue. It says that the punishment of the “children” continues as long as the hatred of God continues among them. As soon as that ends, the punishment ends. When it says, “third and fourth generation,” that leaves the punishment period open ended. The punishment continues only as long as the hatred continues. As soon as that ends, the punishment ends—whenever that may be—in the first generation, or in the second, or third, fourth, or any other. The judgement ends when the hatred ends. The “timing” is deliberately left open-ended, which means that it is not predetermined. Children tend to follow in the footsteps of their fathers. “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” (Prov. 22:6) As long as that culture of “hatred” inculcated by the “fathers” among the children continues, the punishment also continues. When that ends, the punishment ends. The “timing” is made flexible, which means that it is not fixed or predetermined.

So that question is first partly answered within the text of Exodus 20:5. God doesn’t punish the “children” through some mysterious “imputation” of guilt from the fathers to the children (as Piper assumes). The punishment continues because the “children” tend to follow in the footsteps of their fathers. As long as that continues, the punishment continues. When it ends, the punishment ends—whenever that might be—in the first, second, third, or any other “generation”. The open-endedness of the punishment provides the clue to its correct interpretation. The sins of the fathers are NOT “imputed” to the children. They suffer because they are inculcated with the sins of their fathers, and they tend to follow in their footsteps. As soon as that ends, the punishment ends.

The second set of scriptures that address the issue (comprehensively) is from Ezekiel. In the days of Ezekiel, the Jews themselves had misunderstood Exodus 20:5 in the same way that John Piper has done. They thought that God punishes the “children” for the sins of their fathers arbitrarily, without the “children” themselves having done anything to deserve it. For this reason they had concluded that God’s ways were “not equal” (Ezek. 18:25, 29; 33:17, 20), by which they meant that God is unfair! It is unfair to punish somebody for somebody else’s sins—who had done nothing to deserve it. So they had concluded that God’s ways were “not equal,” meaning that they are unfair. He does not deal with people on an “equal” (fair) basis. He does not treat everyone the same! They had even invented a proverb to represent it. The proverb was, “The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge!”

“Sour grapes” are unripe grapes picked early in the season, which are very sour in taste. In the Middle East they are sometimes used as a substitute for lemon juice in cooking, when they are in season. That is one purpose for which they are still used today. They also impart a peculiar flavor to a dish which lemon juice doesn’t. So they are still used in that part of the world for culinary purposes when they are in season.

Sour grapes have another strange property. If you eat one, apart from it being very sour in taste, the acid they contain somehow affects enamel on your teeth, which makes them feel rough against each other. It is a strange feeling which is hard to describe. The only way to know is to experience it yourself. It “sets your teeth on edge”. That is the phrase used in the text to describes it. The Jews in the days of Ezekiel had experience of that, so they knew what that meant; whereas today in our societies and cultures, most people probably haven’t experienced that; so for them that proverb may not be as meaningful today. Now if you eat “sour grapes,” it is your own “teeth” which would be “set on edge,” not somebody else’s teeth! Somebody who hadn’t eaten “sour grapes,” obviously wouldn’t have their “teeth set on edge!” So the Jews at that time had invented the proverb, “The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge!” by which they meant to indicate that perceived “unfairness” in God’s dealing with man—that he (unfairly) punishes the children (or makes them sinners) for the sins of their fathers. That is how they (like John Piper) had misunderstood Exodus 20:5. God, however, did not approve of that misunderstanding (and the proverb they had invented for it), so he sets about to correct it through Ezekiel, in chapters 18 and 33 of his book.

The message that the two chapters impart is that, that understanding of Exodus 20:5 is incorrect. God does NOT arbitrarily punish the “children” for the sins of their “fathers,” by some mysterious “imputation” of the guilt from the fathers to the children (as Piper assumes). It happens because the children tend to follow in the footsteps of their fathers; and as long as they do, the punishment also continues. But as soon as the “children” repent of their fathers’ sins, or the sins that their fathers had inculcated in them, the punishment also ends. That is the correct interpretation of Exodus 20:5 as given by God himself through Ezekiel, in chapters 18 and 33 of his book. The correct meaning of Exodus 20:5 is made unmistakably clear by God himself in chapters 18 and 33 of Ezekiel. There is no excuse for any further misunderstanding of that scripture after that. Here are the highlights from chapter 18:

Ezekiel 18:

1 The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying,

2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge?

3 As I live, saith the Lord God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,

• • •

9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord God.

10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,

• • •
13 … shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

14 Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father’s sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

• • •
17 … he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

18 As for his father, because he … did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.

19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his [evil] ways, and live?

• • •

25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

• • •

29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

No misunderstanding of Exodus 20:5 seem possible after reading that—unless you are a Calvinist of course! Calvinism numbs the mind and dulls the intellect so that the most obvious truths, expressed in the plainest terms, become unintelligible!

John Piper makes another mistake in his interpretation of Ezekiel. In his continued response to the original question he says the following (emphasis added):

“Third, none of this should make anyone feel trapped and without hope because of his parents’ sins.

“Ezekiel 33:14–15 says, ‘Though I say to the wicked, You shall surely die, yet if he turns from his sin and does what is just and right, if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has taken by robbery, and walks in the statutes of life, not doing injustice, he shall surely live; he shall not die.’

“The blood of Jesus conquers all sin and judgment for those who believe. And you get a beautiful sweeping statement in Acts 10:43: ‘To him [Jesus] all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.’ So nobody is trapped in anybody’s sin—their own or someone else’s—because of the cross.”

That is not an accurate portrayal of what Ezekiel says. In Ezekiel, repentance is given as the only requirement for obtaining forgiveness—and escaping the punishment. “Faith” is not made a prerequisite at all. A measure of “faith” may be implied (believing in the prophetic calling of Ezekiel to take seriously what he says). But repentance itself is made the only criteria for obtaining forgiveness—and averting the punishment. “Faith” is not mentioned at all, and is not made a prerequisite. Once they had genuinely repented (for whatever reason, such as a remorse of conscience for example), forgiveness was immediately granted, and the threatened punishment averted—no mention of “faith”. Here are some highlights from chapter 33:

Ezekiel 33:

10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his [evil] way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;

15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.

18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.

19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

So John Piper has seriously erred in his understanding of Exodus 20:5; as well as in his interpretation of Ezekiel—and Leighton Flowers is not doing a very good job of pulling him up on it. Leighton Flowers, generally speaking, has a valid point as far as his objections to Piper’s “Calvinism” is concerned. But merely going after his “Calvinism” does not address specifically the theological and scriptural errors that Piper has made, with regard to his reading of Exodus 20:5, as well as his interpretation of the Ezekiel chapters.

Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33, by the way, are also among the greatest biblical refutations of Calvinism in general. The two chapters between them negate, discredit, and falsify the most fundamental tenets of Calvinism: predestination and “faith alone”. Ezekiel (or rather God speaking through Ezekiel) completely trashes both doctrines. All mankind without exception are free to repent and be saved—or sin and be damned—and nobody is “predestined”. That is the unmistakable message of Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33.

In Ezekiel 18:23; 33:11; God categorically state that he has no pleasure in the death (damnation) of the wicked; but he would rather that they repent and be saved (see also 2 Peter 3:9). If they are not, that is entirely their own choice, not God’s. No one is “predestined” to be damned (or saved). That is diametrically opposed to the Calvinistic abomination that God predestines some people to damnation for his own glory!

Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33, in which God himself speaks in person, are among the most lucid rejection and refutation of Calvinism in scripture (among many others). Ezekiel chapters 18, 33 are a damning indictment of Calvinism. There is no way that Calvinism and Ezekiel can be reconciled. If Calvinism is true, then Ezekiel (and God) must be wrong! Calvinism makes the devil more respectable than God! At least you know where you are with the devil; but with the God of Calvinism, you don’t!