Charismatic vs. Cessationist Debate

I came across the above interesting debate between Dr. Michael Brown, a Charismatic Pentecostal who believes in a continuation of the miraculous gifts mentioned in the Bible, such as the gifts of tongues, healing, prophecy etc.; and Sam Waldron, who is a “cessationist,” meaning that he believes in a cessation of such gifts after the days of the Apostles. There is an interesting Wikipedia article on the subject which can be seen here. After watching the video, I found that while they were both presenting good scriptural arguments for their side of the debate, neither side was convincing to the other, because they were talking past each other by ignoring a third option presented in the Bible, but which, if acknowledged, would undermine each of their respective theological positions.

Both sides are right on some aspects of their arguments, while being wrong on others. On the one hand, the Bible does indeed teach a continuation of spiritual gifts. It does not teach cessationism. So Dr. Michael Brown has a valid point on that. Where he goes wrong is that he assumes that just because the Bible does not teach cessationism, it therefore follows that anybody making such claims, such as the Pentecostal Charismatics, must be genuine, which does not logically follow. The Bible also teaches that it is possible to be deceived, or make false claims. Just because the Bible does not teach a cessation of the miraculous gifts, it does not logically follow that the Pentecostal Charismatic claims must be genuine. That is where Dr. Brown errs in his theology.

But on the other hand, Sam Waldron also has a valid point, in arguing that if those gifts were to be continued, then the callings of prophets and Apostles should also be continued; and the canon of scripture should be open, as it was in their time. It does not make logical sense to retain some of the gifts, while claiming the cessation of the others. To be consistent, you either retain all of the gifts, including prophets, Apostles, and an open canon of scripture; or you claim cessation of all of the gifts—not retain the bits you like, and discontinue the ones you don’t. You either keep all the gifts, or discontinue all the gifts. In presenting that argument, Sam Waldron also has a valid point. The mistake that he makes is that he assumes that just because those gifts and callings appear indeed to have ceased among Christians, that they were therefore meant to be discontinued or ceased, which is not a required conclusion.

There is a third option that both sides have missed, because to acknowledge it would undermine both their respective theological positions. The third option is that those spiritual gifts and callings were indeed never meant to be discontinued, like it says in the Bible. The reason why they have been, and are no longer to be found in the Christian churches today (in spite of the false claims or pretenses of the charismatics), is because early Christianity apostatized, and lost the divine, priesthood, and Apostolic authority which it once possessed, which needed to be restored. The Book of Mormon provides us with the right perspective on the subject (punctuation revised):

Mormon 9:

7 And again, I speak unto you who deny the revelations of God, and say that they are done away; that there are no revelations, nor prophecies, nor gifts, nor healing, nor speaking with tongues, and the interpretation of tongues.

8 Behold, I say unto you, he that denieth these things knoweth not the gospel of Christ; yea, he has not read the scriptures; if so, he does not understand them.

9 For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and in him there is no variableness, neither shadow of changing?

10 And now, if ye have imagined up unto yourselves a god who doth vary, and in whom there is shadow of changing, then have ye imagined up unto yourselves a god who is not a God of miracles.

11 But behold, I will show unto you a God of miracles; even the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and it is that same God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are.

12 Behold, he created Adam, and by Adam came the fall of man; and because of the fall of man came Jesus Christ, even the Father and the Son; and because of Jesus Christ came the redemption of man.

13a And because of the redemption of man, which came by Jesus Christ, they are brought back into the presence of the Lord.
13b Yea, this is wherein all men are redeemed; because the death of Christ bringeth to pass the resurrection, which bringeth to pass a redemption from an endless sleep, from which sleep all men shall be awakened by the power of God when the trump shall sound.
13c And they shall come forth, both small and great; and all shall stand before his bar, being redeemed and loosed from this eternal band of death, which death is a temporal death.

14 And then cometh the judgment of the Holy One upon them. And then cometh the time that he that is filthy, shall be filthy still; and he that is righteous, shall be righteous still. He that is happy, shall be happy still; and he that is unhappy, shall be unhappy still.

15 And now, O all ye that have imagined up unto yourselves a god who can do no miracles; I would ask of you, have all these things passed, of which I have spoken? Has the end come yet? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; and God has not ceased to be a God of miracles.

16 Behold, are not the things that God hath wrought marvelous in our eyes? Yea, and who can comprehend the marvelous works of God?

17 Who shall say that it was not a miracle that by his word the heaven and the earth should be; and by the power of his word man was created of the dust of the earth; and by the power of his word have miracles been wrought?

18 And who shall say that Jesus Christ did not do many mighty miracles? And there were many mighty miracles wrought by the hands of the Apostles.

19 And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles, and yet be an unchangeable Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so, he would cease to be God. And he ceaseth not to be God; and is a God of miracles.

20 And the reason why he ceaseth to do miracles among the children of men, is because that they dwindle in unbelief, and depart from the right way, and know not the God in whom they should trust.

21 Behold, I say unto you that whoso believeth in Christ, doubting nothing, whatsoever he shall ask the Father in the name of Christ, it shall be granted him; and this promise is unto all, even unto the ends of the earth.

22 For behold, thus said Jesus Christ, the Son of God, unto his disciples who should tarry; yea, and also to all his disciples, in the hearing of the multitude: Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature;

23 And he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

24 And these signs shall follow them that believe: in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

25 And whosoever shall believe in my name, doubting nothing, unto him will I confirm all my words, even unto the ends of the earth.

26 And now behold, who can stand against the works of the Lord? Who can deny his sayings? Who will rise up against the almighty power of the Lord? Who will despise the works of the Lord? Who will despise the children of Christ? Behold, all ye who are despisers of the works of the Lord, for ye shall wonder and perish.

27 O then, despise not, and wonder not; but hearken unto the words of the Lord; and ask the Father in the name of Jesus for what things soever ye shall stand in need. Doubt not, but be believing, and begin as in times of old; and come unto the Lord with all your heart; and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him.

28 Be wise in the days of your probation. Strip yourselves of all uncleanness. Ask not, that ye may consume it on your lusts; but ask with a firmness unshaken, that ye will yield to no temptation, but that ye will serve the true and living God.

Moroni 7:

12 Wherefore all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil. For the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually; and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually. Wherefore everything which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

14 Wherefore take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God; or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man that he may know good from evil; wherefore I show unto you the way to judge: for everything which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ, wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God;

17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God; then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil. For after this manner doth the devil work. For he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

18 And now my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge, ye shall also be judged.

19 Wherefore I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

20 And now my brethren, how is it possible that ye can lay hold upon every good thing?

21 And now I come to that faith, of which I said I would speak; and I will tell you the way whereby ye may lay hold on every good thing.

22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.

23 And God also declared unto prophets, by his own mouth that Christ should come.

24 And behold, there were divers ways that he did manifest things unto the children of men, which were good. And all things which are good cometh of Christ; otherwise men were fallen, and there could no good thing come unto them.

25 Wherefore by the ministering of angels, and by every word which proceeded forth out of the mouth of God, men began to exercise faith in Christ; and thus by faith they did lay hold upon every good thing; and thus it was until the coming of Christ.

26 And after that he came, men also were saved by faith in his name; and by faith they become the sons of God. And as surely as Christ liveth, he spake these words unto our fathers, saying, Whatsoever thing ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is good, in faith believing that ye shall receive, behold it shall be done unto you.

27 Wherefore my beloved brethren, have miracles ceased because Christ hath ascended into heaven, and hath sat down on the right hand of God, to claim of the Father his rights of mercy which he hath upon the children of men?

28 For he hath answered the ends of the law; and he claimeth all those who have faith in him; and they who have faith in him will cleave unto every good thing. Wherefore he advocateth the cause of the children of men; and he dwelleth eternally in the heavens.

29 And because he hath done this, my beloved brethren, have miracles ceased? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; neither have angels ceased to minister unto the children of men.

30 For behold, they are subject unto him, to minister according to the word of his command, showing themselves unto them of strong faith and a firm mind in every form of godliness.

31 And the office of their ministry is to call men unto repentance; and to fulfil and to do the work of the covenants of the Father, which he hath made unto the children of men, to prepare the way among the children of men, by declaring the word of Christ unto the chosen vessels of the Lord, that they may bear testimony of him.

32 And by so doing the Lord God prepareth the way that the residue of men may have faith in Christ; that the Holy Ghost may have place in their hearts, according to the power thereof; and after this manner bringeth to pass the Father the covenants which he hath made unto the children of men.

33 And Christ hath said, If ye will have faith in me, ye shall have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient in me.

34 And he hath said, Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, and have faith in me, that ye may be saved.

35 And now my beloved brethren, if this be the case, that these things are true which I have spoken unto you—and God will show unto you, with power and great glory at the last day that they are true—and if they are true, has the day of miracles ceased?

36 Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has he withheld the power of the Holy Ghost from them? Or will he, so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved?

37 Behold, I say unto you, Nay. For it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men. Wherefore if these things have ceased, wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain.

38 For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name; wherefore if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also, and awful is the state of man; for they are as though there had been no redemption made.

39 But behold, my beloved brethren, I judge better things of you; for I judge that ye have faith in Christ, because of your meekness; for if ye have not faith in him, then ye are not fit to be numbered among the people of his church.

These guys have theological degrees and PhDs and God knows what, and have read thousands of books. Too bad they don’t know how much smarter they would be if they studied and took more seriously the Book of Mormon! They don’t even need to become Mormons! All they need to do is to recognise the book for what it is, and learn great doctrine and theology from it. 😃 In Mormonism the canon of scripture is indeed open, and the Book of Mormon is a powerful witness to that claim. It cannot be ignored or sidelined. Denying it, turning a blind eye to it, or making jokes about it will not make it go away.