Pastor Jeff has put out his latest video (after a long interregnum) discussing LDS beliefs and doctrines. It looks like he has given up on his reading and discussing the contents of the Book of Mormon―probably because he has gained a witness of its truth!―which would be a good thing. In this video he is having a conversation with another Church member by the name of Greg Matsen, discussing LDS beliefs and doctrines. Skipping the initial introductory remarks, Pastor Jeff continues his conversation with Greg as follows (emphasis added):
“So what I want to do now is go through six primary essential core doctrines, I could say with a great deal of confidence, that all mainstream Christian denominations would agree on. There might be another level which we would call secondary doctrines, where there would be a lot of disagreement on issues like speaking in tongues, or infant baptism, or predestination; but those are issues that, though we might passionately disagree about, we call them secondary issues, that the Bible gives us the freedom to agree to disagree on those, without it impacting our salvation, or impacting our eternal destiny. When it comes to these core or essential doctrines, they really do make up what we believe to be the parameters that the Bible does not allow us to disagree on, if we are going to have a proper understanding of what God has revealed in his Word about his will, and about his character.”
I have a serious problem with that right from the start. The gospel of Jesus Christ does not distinguish between what he calls “primary issues” and “secondary issues”―and neither does the Bible. The gospel of Jesus Christ is about truth―especially spiritual and divine truth. All true principles are part of the gospel; and false principles are not. A genuine Christian will settle for nothing less. Jesus was “full of grace and truth” (John 1:14), and “grace and truth came by Jesus Christ” (John 1:17). He declared, “He that doeth truth cometh to the light,” and “The true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth” (John 4:23). He further said, “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32). He identified himself as “The way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), and prayed to his Father, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth” (John 17:17). He said that he had come to “bear witness unto the truth,” and that “every one that is of the truth heareth my voice” (John 18:37). He also promised his disciples that the Holy Ghost would guide them into “all truth” (John 16:13). You can’t identify yourself as a genuine Christian, a faithful follower and disciple of Jesus Christ, and settle for anything less than absolute, complete, undiluted, uncompromised, unadulterated divine truth. Skipping a few preliminary remarks, he poses his first question as follows:
“Okay, so let’s start with the first doctrine that all mainstream Christians are going to adhere to and agree on; and it is going to come to no surprise to anybody, even if you are a Latter-day Saint; and that is the full, sufficient authority of the Bible, as it exists in the Old and the New Testament. We believe that the scriptures are inspired; and that comes from second Timothy chapter three. And it is not inspired like, oh, I just heard a song, and I am inspired to write a poem. It is actually inspired in the sense that it is actually breathed out by God; that the Old Testament and the New Testament were actually breathed out by God; and influenced, and inspired, informed, the writers of scripture to write down exactly what he wanted to have revealed; and as a result of that, there is a belief that we don’t need any other scripture, or objective truth rallying point beyond the Bible, to inform us of what God has revealed to us. So Latter-day Saints on the other hand, hold to a different belief when it comes to the authority of specifically the Old and New Testaments. So help me understand how Latter-day Saints might view that doctrine, compared to what is taught in Latter-day Saint tradition.”
My answer to that question is going to be a little bit different from Greg’s answer. My answer is that the Bible is not just one book. It consists of many books, composed by many different authors, over many centuries and several thousand years. The Bible in the days of Moses was not the same as the Bible in the days of Joshua, which was not the same as the Bible in the days of Isaiah, which was not the same as the Bible in the days of Jeremiah, which was not the same as the Bible in the days of Daniel, which was not the same as the Bible in the days of Malachi, which was not the same as the Bible in the days of Paul, which was not the same as the Bible in the days of John the Revelator. In each period, more scripture, more revelation, more word of the Lord was added to it. So my question to him is, God having spoken through so many prophets, over so many centuries, why should he suddenly stop speaking now? Where does it say in the Bible that he should? Who are they to shut the mouth of God, and declare when he has the right to speak, and when he doesn’t? It is the sign of a false, apostate religion to declare the heavens closed, and denying God the right to speak whenever he wants to. That comes close to blasphemy. The truth is that whenever God’s true religion has existed in the world, this power has always been given, to receive revelation, and add to the scriptural canon. Nothing witnesses to the bankruptcy and apostasy of “mainstream Christianity” than the declaration that the heavens are closed, and God will not speak again anymore. Then skipping over some more exchanges, Jeff continues as follows:
“And the best example I use to this is, if in a mainstream Christian context, somebody states something, or claims something, and we believe it violates the Bible, we are going to take the Bible to them and say, What you are saying is out of line, because it does not match with the Bible, or it is not found in the Bible. If I would do that to Latter-day Saint, a Latter-day Saint―correct me if I am wrong―is going to be like, ‘So what, we have other sources of revelation that we can go to, in order to be informed about certain claims or ideas that allow us to say, the Bible isn’t the only authority that we go by’.”
That is not quite accurate either. While it is true that we have additional scripture besides the Bible, we believe that there is no contradiction between the two. Our theology in that regard is defined by the following verses in modern revelation:
Doctrine and Covenants 10:
62 Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them [Book of Mormon]; and behold, they shall not deny that which you have received [Bible], but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me.
Doctrine and Covenants 42:
12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.
Both the Bible and Book of Mormon are canonized scriptures of the Church, and contain the “fullness of the gospel”. They complement and support each other, not contradict one another. The rest of the conversation tends to become a bit too haphazard and disjointed, and do not require a continued response, which I will skip. For example further down Jeff says the following:
“So let’s just talk about a little bit more than just about the nature of God, when it comes to his attributes, where we believe that God is eternal, though he exists and he is fully present outside and within the created universe, he is otherly, meaning he he is not bound by this universe. So he has eternally existed, really in a state that defies our comprehension; because he is eternal, because he is omnipresent, because he is all-powerful, he is not bound to the same laws when it comes to origin, like anything within this created Universe usually has an origin God is he is The Great I Am. And even though that seems abstract in some ways, that doesn’t mean that he is not incredibly personal so he has entered into his creation to make sure that even though he is outside of it, when it comes to what we can comprehend, he is so knowable, deeply personal, deeply loving, and can still be experienced in the context of relationship. So as I talk through some of those attributes of how we view God in that sort of transcendent sense, where would Latter-day Saints fall, when it comes to seeing that similarly or differently?”
My answer to that is, stick with what scripture says! Whatever scripture says in that regard, I accept. No need to elaborate or speculate. And by “scripture” I mean Bible plus modern LDS scripture, no difference.
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