I came across the above video in which some humorous LDS folks are responding to a video put out by Allie Beth Stuckey, making false claims and accusations about LDS beliefs and doctrines, accusing them of not believing in the Deity of Christ, or that he was the Son of God etc., and of believing in a “different Jesus” etc.—the kind of usual falsehoods and lies about LDS beliefs and doctrines that Evangelicals (though not all of them) like to put out about Latter-day Saints. And these guys are going about answering her in a humorous way. I agree that she deserves to be laughed at; but there is a better way of answering her accusations, or refuting her false claims. A better way is to quote directly from LDS scripture that discredits her false allegations about LDS beliefs and doctrines. The original video by Allie Beth Stuckey, called: “Is ‘The Chosen’ Biblical?” is seen below:
It is in the form of a conversation with another Evangelical Christian (a much more reasonable one) by the name of Dallas Jenkins, who does not share her animosity towards all things LDS. He apparently hosts his own Christian video channel called “The Chosen;” and the conversation is mainly about that. The main accusation that she brings against LDS is that they do not believe in the Deity of Christ. The following brief extract from her conversation with Dallas Jenkins begins at 23:34 minutes into the video:
Allie: “I would have thought that you would say that the most controversial thing, or the thing that caused the most criticism, was when Jesus said, ‘I am the law of Moses;’ and people interpreted that as quoting the Book of Mormon, which I know that you have already answered this; it was not a direct quote from the Book of Mormon, not also a direct quote from scripture; so I would have thought that that was the thing that caused the most …”
Dallas: “Well that episode hasn’t come out yet, that was in the trailer … and so yes, I would say you are right, that became one of the most controversial things … so there is a moment in episode three, which is coming up this Sunday night actually. We have our big live stream on this on Christmas, December 25th, we have our big episode three live stream; and that will give everyone the chance to see the scene that has the quote, that vexed so many people. So one of the Pharisees is really upset with Jesus, for claiming to be the Messiah, in his own hometown; and they are saying, ‘You are a false prophet; and because you are a false prophet, we have no choice but to follow the Law of Moses,’ which of course says you put to death false prophets. And Jesus steps up to him and says, ‘I am the Law of Moses’. And yes, the rumor got spread that that is a quote from the Book of Mormon.”
Well, that is not strictly correct. In the Book of Mormon, Jesus doesn’t say, “I am the law of Moses”. He says, “I am the law” (3 Nephi 15:9), which is not the same thing. Jesus came to actually abolish the Law of Moses, and replace it with a higher law. The Sermon on the Mount in the New Testament is that higher law that Jesus gave us, in place of the Law of Moses. So when he says in the Book of Mormon that, “I am the law,” it means that he is the ultimate source of all law, including the Law of Moses, as well the higher law that he replaced it with—in the New Testament as well as in the Book of Mormon. Here is the full Book of Mormon quote in context:
3 Nephi 15:
8 For behold, the covenant which I have made with my people is not all fulfilled; but the law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me.
9 Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.
10 Behold, I have given unto you the commandments; therefore keep my commandments. And this is the law and the prophets, for they truly testified of me.
So that was a bit of a misreading of the Book of Mormon. Skipping the rest of Dallas’s comments, the conversation continues as follows:
Allie: “The number one question that I got from my audience, as you can probably guess, was about Mormonism, and about some recent comments that you made. You clarified those comments, you said you know there are some LDS people, that I know we love the same Jesus; and then you kind of clarified that to say: not that LDS and Evangelical Christians have the same theology; but that the ones you know love the same Jesus. I mean as you know, some people have a problem with that. Mormonism does not believe that Jesus is God; believes that Jesus is a Son of God, and became like God, was actually a brother of Satan; so it is not the same Jesus, it is not the same God at all. And the differences are extremely fundamental; I would say much more than, you know, Catholicism, or things like that. And so you know, some people were a little concerned about that.”
Dallas: “Well, out of context; you take the phrase that I said, where I said we love the same Jesus; and they said okay Dallas is saying that all Mormons, all LDS folks, love the same Jesus as Evangelicals. Now I am not going to speak for the LDS Church; but what I was saying, and I think my wording was sloppy, I think that I could have clarified a little bit better; I do have some LDS friends—I have LDS friends who I would say, don’t necessarily love the same Jesus that I do—I do have some that we have, I have spent hundreds of hours with, I have prayed with, I have wept with, I have gone to Israel with, I have spent hundreds of hours of talking; and I would say that those friends of mine that I know, that I have spent tons of time with, when we are talking particularly about Jesus of Nazareth, particularly the Jesus of the Gospels, it is the same Jesus they they love, like the show, like the Jesus that I am portraying in the show, the Jesus that we read about in the scriptures. I firmly believe that. And you know, in my deep conversations with them, that we are, when we are talking about Jesus of Nazareth, we are talking about the same.”
Allie: “But, not John 1:1, that ‘the Word was God’. That is not what Mormons believe.”
Dallas: “Well, that may not be the official statement of the LDS Church; but I would say that I know some LDS folks who would say, ‘I believe in John chapter one’. Now that may put them in misalignment with their church, I don’t know. I don’t get into the details of whether or not what their church thinks. But I am just saying, I have, you know, I have literally asked those very questions to some of my friends; and I have gone, well, What do you think of John chapter one: ‘In the beginning was the Word, the Word was God, and the Word was with God’? They go, ‘I believe that’. I go, ‘Well, it seems to contradict this piece.’ And they go, ‘Well, that piece might have been misinterpreted by some people.’ So I am just saying, I am not disagreeing with you; I would say, if you said to me the LDS Church as a whole, and does the Evangelical world as a whole, share the same fundamental theological beliefs about Jesus? I would say, No …”
Well, I have good news for Dallas (and bad news for Allie!), LDS have no problem whatsoever with John chapter one, or with the Deity of Christ—in any shape or form whatsoever—neither individually as Church members, nor collectively as a Church, nor officially by the Church. I will provide references after the video quotes. Skipping the rest of Dallas’s comments, the conversation continues as follows:
Allie: “Yeah, and I would just encourage people go back and listen to Thursday’s episode. We talked to a woman who spent 30 years in the Mormon church, and then became a Christian; and it is not saying that everyone with a label believes the same things, but it is looking at particular doctrines, and just making sure that people know the true gospel: what is a works based religion, versus what is by grace through faith; and that is what Christianity is founded upon.”
Dallas: “Let me say one more, if you don’t mind, one more clarifier too. I have spoken with, I would say it is a conservative estimate to say dozens, like personal conversations with dozens of people from the LDS faith who have said to me, because of the Chosen [Channel], I am finding myself closer to Jesus, and closer to grace, than I ever have in my entire life; that I am finding myself falling more in love with Jesus than the Church; and that to me …”
Allie: “That would be a big shift for Mormons, who really see Church, the LDS Church, as the authority, so …”
Dallas: “That is, I mean, I know people for whom their Church, LDS, or Catholic, or any any kind of formal religion, is in many almost like God; is almost like the thing that they worship; the thing that is their connection to God; and as an Evangelical, I passionately believe that you don’t need anything formal, or anything to connect you to God; that you can have a direct relationship with Jesus. And I have talked to dozens personally myself, and heard from hundreds online, or even thousands of people have said, I am finding myself loving Jesus more, and finding a personal relationship with Jesus, more so than my church; more so than anything formal, anything, any person, or thing as a connection, that I am actually getting direct access to Jesus because of this. And so even if by some chance I disagree with a viewer about someone else’s faith, I can tell you that the Chosen [Channel] itself, the content of the Chosen [Channel] itself, I am responsible for; it is not influenced by any religion, it is not influenced by any church, any person. It comes from a personal belief in Jesus as the Son of God, as the ultimate Authority as God; and if that can actually have an influence and an impact on people, who Maybe have in the past not been able to have a personal relationship, because of whether it is a lack of faith; or sometimes it is because of the idolatry of their own church, the idolatry of their own habits, the idolatry of their own vices; but you can actually get past all of that.”
The short answer to that is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, unlike the Evangelical churches that they are accustomed to, has direct authority from God. It is led by true prophets and Apostles, and by direct revelation from God, as the original Christian church was that Jesus had established. It is a Restoration of that original and true church. That does not make the Church God. It does not mean that we worship the Church instead of God. It does not mean that we cannot have a “personal relationship” with Jesus either. What it does mean is that the restored Church of Jesus Christ has a special authority from God that no other Christian Church or denomination has. Continuing with the rest of the discussion, I conclude with this brief quote from Allie:
Allie: “Yeah, and I just want my listeners and my viewers to know, to make clear that Mormonism is not a denomination of Christianity; that there are fundamental differences. …”
She has got that bit right. I’m sure she didn’t mean to! The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not “a denomination of [mainstream] Christianity,” nor claims to be. It is a Restoration of the original and true Church of Jesus Christ. We believe that that original church apostatized, and lost its legitimacy and divine authority, and needed to be restored—and LDS is a Restoration (by revelation, and by ministration of angels) of that original and true church. But the main criticism that she brings against LDS beliefs is that they do not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ. Her main proof text is John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Her claim is that that is not what Latter-day Saints believe. Well, I have got bad news for her (it is good news for everyone else—except for her!) We not only believe 100% in what is taught in John 1:1; but the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ, and his eternal power and Godhead, is taught far more clearly, affirmatively, repeatedly, unambiguously, comprehensively, and emphatically in the Book of Mormon, and in other modern scriptures of the Church, than it is in the Bible. The following is a selection:
Book of Mormon Title page:
… And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations.
2 Nephi 11:
7 For if there be no Christ, there be no God; and if there be no God, we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ; and he cometh in the fullness of his own time.
2 Nephi 26:
12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;
Mosiah 3:
5 For behold the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, …
Mosiah 7:
27 And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things; and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth—
Mosiah 15:
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
Mosiah 16:
15 Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen.
Mosiah 27:
31 Yea, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess before him [Christ]. Yea, even at the last day, when all men shall stand to be judged of him; then shall they confess that he is God; …
Alma 11:
39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he [Christ] is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;
3 Nephi 11:
14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
Doctrine and Covenants 1:
24 Behold I am God, and have spoken it; these commandments are of me [Christ], and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.
Doctrine and Covenants 19:
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
Doctrine and Covenants 35:
1 Listen to the voice of the Lord your God, even Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, whose course is one eternal round, the same today as yesterday, and forever.
2 I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was crucified for the sins of the world, …
• • •
8 For I am God, and mine arm is not shortened; and I will show miracles, signs, and wonders, unto all those who believe on my name.
Doctrine and Covenants 38:
1 Thus saith the Lord your God, even Jesus Christ, the Great I Am, Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. The same which looked upon the wide expanse of eternity, and all the seraphic hosts of heaven before the world was made;
2 The same which knoweth all things, for all things are present before mine eyes.
3 I am the same which spake, and the world was made, and all things came by me.
Doctrine and Covenants 39:
1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ—
2 The light and the life of the world; a light which shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not;
Doctrine and Covenants 63:
6 Wherefore verily I say, let the wicked take heed, and let the rebellious fear and tremble, and let the unbelieving hold their lips; for the day of wrath shall come upon them as a whirlwind, and all flesh shall know that I am God.
Doctrine and Covenants 76:
1 Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no Savior.
2 Great is his wisdom, marvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings none can find out.
3 His purposes fail not, neither are there any who can stay his hand.
4 From eternity to eternity he is the same, and his years never fail.
Doctrine and Covenants 101:
16 Therefore let your hearts be comforted concerning Zion, for all flesh is in mine hands. Be still and know that I am God.
Doctrine and Covenants 115:
4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
That is the true doctrine and theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with regard to the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine of the deity of Christ taught as clearly, emphatically, comprehensively, repeatedly, unambiguously, and affirmatively as it is in the modern scriptures of the restored Church of Jesus Christ. Her problem is that she is being led astray by the false, apostate churches and religions of the day that she is enamored with, as Paul describes:
2 Thessalonians 2:
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Another criticism she has made of the Church is that it is a “works based” religion, which again is false. We believe in repenting of our sins, and keeping the commandments of God to be saved, which is not the same thing as a “works based salvation”. Nothing is taught more clearly and repeatedly in the Bible—Old and New Testaments—than that we need to repent of our sins, and keep the commandments of God to be saved; and that is not the same as a “works based” salvation. “Works salvation” means that we save ourselves by our own works; or that our works save us, independent of the saving and redeeming work of Jesus Christ. That is what the Jews believed in at the time. They believed that they were saved by observance of the elaborate ritualistic rites and performances of the Law of Moses, without the need for the sacrificial death, Atonement, Redemption, and Mediation of Jesus Christ. That is what Paul was arguing against. All of his talk about “faith alone” and no “works,” is directed against that. He never meant it to be understood that we don’t need to repent of our sins, and keep the commandments of God to be saved. Those are two different things. I have already discussed this subject at some length in several previous blog posts, therefore there is no need to discuss it at length again here. A few biblical prooftexts will be sufficient:
Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 16:
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Luke 6:
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
John 5:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life [salvation]; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Acts 10:
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation [and religion] he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Acts 17:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Romans 14:
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
1 Corinthians 3:
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1 Corinthians 6:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
2 Corinthians 5:
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Galatians 6:
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Titus 3:
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
James 1:
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
1 Peter 1:
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Revelation 20:
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 22:
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
• • •
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Spreading falsehoods and lies about other people’s beliefs and faith traditions is not a good idea (Lev. 19:11; Prov. 12:22; 14:5; Col. 3:9; Rev. 21:8; 22:15).
No comments:
Post a Comment